I am back home

[escapingman]

I am back home, me and SG. The attorney's made a deal, there will be no more hearings regarding the protection order I applied for. STBX agreed to move out and to stay away from the house. She is gone. But she has taken my wonderful GC with her, I am in bits. But, there is peace at home for me and SG and STBX is not allowed back. I can fight from home now, and start healing.  I have a good cry, not because I miss STBX but for what she has done and how she has ruined the family and our future.

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for the update, escapingman.

[blunk]

The title of your post made me sad for a moment, until I read that stbx was out of the house.
I remember the overall sense of relief I felt once my bpdxh finally moved out. Wishing you and SG that same type of relief, and hoping that everything goes smoothly (as much as possible, when dealing with a PD) as you move forward.

[justducky]

Bittersweet news.

Much love to you, SG, and GC.

Although things look bleak right now, I think the three of you have a much brighter future ahead. It'll be rocky at times, but you're on your way. 

[escapingman]

Thanks for your well wishes.

I paid a fortune for the Barrister, but she did the job, it was worth every penny as she got STBX out the house. I knew I hit jack pot when she questions what was happening on the voice recording and said it was disturbing to listen to, followed by telling me in details about how the drama triangle works (same words as SoT used to explain it). She then went on to comment on another recording it sounded like it was a children's squabble. We are already on to the next, but I am not ready to share yet although it involves getting GC back.

As sad and empty it is at home now, it's a bliss to see SG being so peaceful and calm as she is right now. The last week really tested us, but I am so proud of SG for how she cooped with it all.

[square]

Reading that I feel the mix of emotions. But intellectually I see a huge win for you, and I think that it's not a loss on GC yet but status quo. Things msy still turn around there.

[hhaw]

EM:

My experience was that our civil justice system had no ability to hold liars and those committing criminal acts accountable.....and if tgey did they simply weren't inclined to. 

A pattern of dropping hearings based on promises made by opposing counsel, with my ASPD failing to comply over and over, developed with my attorney admitting I was out of luck and the system wasn't equipped to handle criminals.

This forced me to get very crafty with regard to insisting open complaints remain open, even though agreements were reached SO I WOULDN'T lose my ability to use all the evidence I had.  Sometimes dropping a case means you lose your ability to use all evidence to that agreement date and the clock starts again, which is devastating in cases like this, ime.

I have to say my properly documenting these types of facts with my attorneys wasn't all that helpful, in that attorneys are likely to deny it even sabotage a client they've failed or who points out that court officer's failures......some are super defensive...esp the egregiously incompetent attorneys, Ts and court officers. 

I had luck with discussing "what if" scenarios with the competent attorneys, it was bc I told them I trusted their opinions and hoped the PDs truly did as my attorney insisted they would.....then I shut up and let my attorney experience the embarrassment of being completely wrong and appearing like a fool for snapping my head off when I clearly explained what was going to happen....and of course it happened.    The competent attorneys who " get it" will get angry at the PD and fight 10x harder for you, ime.  There were many times I held my position by the skin if my teeth based on my children's safety....even then even my attorneys dud all they could to force settlements that would have meant emotional suicide for me and harm to my children.

BTW, once the pd understands how you documented the abuse, opportunities to document are typically more difficult to come by.....every time I let an attorney talk me into an agreement my position was weaker in the next action.

Every time my ASPD asked for somethibg there was an ulterior motive weakening my position and strengthening his.  He broke rules, didn't want to see the kids and assaulted me, threatened me and worse with zero consequences in the civil system, mostly bc I didn't understand the systems and sabotaged myself or allowed myself to be talked into making disastrous decisions my attorneys experienced no consequences for.

That happening over and over made me very reluctant to drop or put off any hearing without having a signed Agreement I could enforce through the courts.... I needed it in my hand after it was filed and stamped.  That became my default setting and it happened ONCE when the PDs were facing criminal charges.  All other times they were Lucy with the football, making and breaking promises but with me refusing to drop ANYTHING in the end.  Things moved mirecquickly, which everyone wants, except the PD, ime.

Always get filed and stamped copies of legal for your files, bc some attorneys don't give them to clients and some keep terrible records, believe it or not.  This complicates and slows the process if anything irregular arises, so stating on top is worth the effort, ime.

You're trying to limit time, expense and trauma here.  If you have to go stand in line at the courthouse to get filed and stamped copies of documents bc your attorney gave you copies NOT filed and stamped, this impeeds your ability to parent, work, keep your case together and present your evidence to new attorneys, should you need their services for this or future cases, ime.

I know you said your stbx is likely to fold under the weight if the evidence you have.....what happens if all your evidence goes away?  What pressure will you have?

Make sure you're informed completely before agreeing to anything.  Get it in writing and see if keeping actions open is possible. In my case, everyone wanted to close my open actions and tried to force me to drop them before stbx before he followed through with promises....I made my agreement contingent on keeping the divorce active in the one case I stood up for myself so I know it can be done, at least in the US.  It preserved my evidence and rights that otherwise would have been thrown out completely with my having to refile and begin all over again.

Just so you know, I felt forced to settle again and again even knowing I was weakening my ability to prove my cases and utilize important evidence. 

Everything in overwhelmed judicial systems seems to be slanted towards clearing their docket and scraping their plates, esp with chaotic cases involving PDs, ime.  It's just a fact the system is too overwhelmed to care about our children, ime.

Gently steering things toward a trial, toward handwritten Agreements signed at the meeting, enforceable by a court helps keep your position string.....getting your very best evidence introduced into the record and so it's considered in the Final Order is a very helpful option, ime.

Do not fear trial court bc it can be the best and quickest way to the exit door.  Sad but true.  Accept that.  Don't fear trial court if you can help it.

It's been my experience months and tens of thousands of dollars are often wasted by the PD after fighting over an Agreement they say they'll sign then refuse after fighting over and changing every detail at great expense
AND
more importantly, you were convinced to drop all pending hearings and trial dates.

This means you stopped trial prep, breathed a sigh of relief and dropped your guard, tried to go back to mining joy so when the pd says they decided they want to go to trial it's a devastating emotional and physical blow....you have to start over with setting court dates, find your evidence and figure out how to catch up then explain to your children you were wrong, it's not over and the stbx will blame you and pretend to be a victim while your nervous system takes the hit and recovers, which it will, but you can see how refusing to settle without droppibg court dates and getting signatures on HANDWRITTEN Agreements at the time of settlement conferences can get you through and out of this abyss with economy if everything dear to you.

My point is, if the stbx is really going to settle, she'll sign what she agrees to at the time she agrees opposed to sending the attorneys to "craft" an Agreement at their offices, typically at great expense and the pd isn't accountable or required to stand by her word.  This is a common pd tactic, ime.

You limit chaos if you refuse to dismiss court dates and actions based on PD promises.....you can explain that in a calm way and if you always reference the children's best interests, safety and limiting harm to them it's difficult to talk you out of standing your ground.

It's difficult for stbx to insist on irrational demands when you remain steady, reasonable and child focused.

Attorneys WANT to settle everything and resent trial prep and going to trial, ime so make sure your counsel understands you want to settle, but are unwilling to add more time to the process by dropping hearings should the pd change her mind.  It's unusual, but a goid attorney will begin to see the logic, ime.

I see attorneys forcing clients to drop hearings when Agreements are made as procedural habits that serve the attorneys, not clients divorcing PDs so you're actually speeding things up by requesting a handwritten agreement at the time if the meeting and don't trust opposing counsel to file it.  Have your attorney handle it and drop hearings ONLY after you have the signed, filed and stamped ORDER in your hand.

Sometimes PDs force divorcing spouses to go through trial prep before settling on the Courthouse steps.  I've never encountered a PD who didn't pretend to settle then insist on going to trial, even when they lost every case and eventually spent days testifying, ending in terrible admissions of abusing the legal system to punish me with false allegations and legal bills designed to starve me and my children out....the only consequence was the PDs were ordered to pay my legal fees, which was the end of the legal struggles.  I always said that would be the end...,when my PDs, with unlimited resources, had to pay my legal bills it would end.  That's how it went down after 8 years of being tormented in the courts.

As long as the PDs kept me in court, paying for representation.... they won, even when they lost until that final courtroom where everything was allowed into the court record from 10 other cases......which is astonishing only because I pulled the best possible Judge in that County and got lucky.  Thebc PDs obviously bought off and biased a court appointed T and put all their eggs in that very terrifying basket while my sister and I put together boxes of relevant evidence in a way we could locate it quickly and SHOW everyone the facts in the case, which involved years if evidence, which you seem to have also.

Trial prep is everything.  Preserving your ability to utilize your evidence is HUGE, ime.

Do not drop any hearing or, God forbid, trial date bc stbx makes a promise.  Forcing her to settle BEFORE the trial date and planning for that court date is an option, even if all attorneys urge you to do otherwise, it's ok to keep to the calendar if that's what you feel is best. 

You should be aware of your rights and it's difficult for attorneys to be angry at you for wanting to keep things moving without adding time, expense and trouble to an already extended process you wish to handle with economy of motion.  Attorneys extend time and courtesies to each other as a matter if habit, but it can impact your mental health to have things drag out, ime.

You have the option to lob the ball back at stbx after clarifying what you're willing to do to end the divorce quickly, imo.  Stbx wants you to drop hearings and trial dates based on promises.  You want to settle, sign and finish everything up, signed and filed.....I feel that position has strength and integrity if handled right.....the childrens' best interests are always the priority people have difficulty ignoring and dismissing.

First things first, have a list of your bottom line MUST HAVE items.  Have things you know stbx wants and put them there so you can give them up and appear willing to compromise.

Your list should be overtly reasonable and child centered.

I would suggest ending discussions if your bottom line list of reasonable items isn't agreed to. Faffing about for 8 hours when stbx refuses the mist reasonable items makes sense to me.  You don't want to spend all your resources before trial and It's ok to go to trial.....its often the shortest route OUT of divorce court with a disordered individual likely to be pathologically unable to agree to anything.

You'll have more info as stbx complies or fails to comply with agreement to move out and stay away.

I truly hope she's willing to settle and follow orders in place.

Make sure any Orders are detailed and enforceable through the courts.

Make sure to look down the road to possible other trials so you preserve your rights and evidence if you can.

I'm glad you hired the expensive Barrister. 

One last question....how will contact be handled going forward? 

Stbx and GC will need things out of the house.  Is there a plan for that?  Whatever it is, do what you can to limit opportunity for stbx to pisturecas a victim and set you up.

Appearing to be a nice guy can be secondary to limiting the chaos, one.

Setting and holding boundaries will keep you safe, ime.

It's ok to ask all communications with stbx should go through artorneys if you feel it's necessary.

You're going to feel stronger as stbx has less or zero contact with you, ime but don't stop trial prep.  It's easier to keep up with it than play catch up. 

Spend time really looking your girls in the eye and being present with them.

I pray for the best possible outcome for you and your children, ((EM.))

[escapingman]

hhaw, thank you.

I try to respond and I think I got this.

What, if anything, did attorneys say will happen if stbx fails to comply with this agreement?

She can be arrested.

Did attorneys dismiss your complaint OR keep it open in case stbx fails to comply?

The case stays open for at least 3 months if i understood it right.

Did anyone tell you if you're giving up your right to use current evidence or not?

Current evidence is still valid

Is stbx allowed to pick up SG from school?  Can you see GC at school?

Yes, but see comments further down.

Are any temporary visitation agreements in place for either child?

No, but see further down.

I had applied for a protection order which would stop uNPDX for being abusive to me and the girls and also for her to not be allowed near the house. She avoided the second hearing and risk being charged by agreeing to exactly what I asked for, and thus risking being arrested if she breaks the rules. It has not been signed yet, but at the moment it can be taken back to court in case she suddenly change her mind.

As it stands, STBX is not allowed on to the road of the house where we live. If she want's anything, she can email me, but is only allowed practical text and anything else could be used against her. She is also allowed to phone me but only in an emergency, like if GC would be in hospital because of an accident.

I only agreed to all this, with pressing the nuclear button at the same time, filing another emergency order that would get GC back to me. I can't say more about this as I don't know enough, but the aim is GC moving back home and me getting full custody temporary. The war has started, and I am not going to let her have any chance of winning it.

[square]

Wow. Damn. You got this.

[hhaw]

Ok....Ill play devil's advocate:

"...for at least 3 months.."

Is there any chance stbx's attorney is telling her all she has to do to overcome her current legal challenges is to behave for 3 months THEN the pending action goes away along with all evidence you've curated up to the time the action was halted?  Abd his there any small chance it's true?

It appears your counsel is covering your entire rump, however my experience is attorneys are always scampering to deal with whatever crisis is in front of them on a daily basis.....so many clients, so many hearings and discussions and trials to prep for.....they don't look down the road bc they can't afford to, even if they cared to. 

You sound centered and committed to the mission, EM, but you're the one dealing with consequences. 

You have the right to ask your team about possible outcomes and strategies to head off trouble.

Don't let anyone give you away.....esp out of desire to scrape their plate of a difficult case they can't wait to be clear of.

Three months, EM.  What happens in 3 months?

You're allowed to ask for lasting protections and ways to enforce Orders without starting over again and again.

Starting over is demoralizing,
it's expensive
and robs our children of our focus and attention.....
:: counting hardships::
It's too f'n hard and to be avoided where possible, ime.

[escapingman]

Hhaw,  sorry if I wasn't clear. My understanding is 3 months for this particular order. But as X has agreed to what I requested but under a different name it is only academic. If I have to go back to court, it eoukd be because she breaks the order and then the new evidence will be stronger as she has broken an order. But rhis was just the first one yo get me and the girls done peace,  now onto the next which will be much more of a fight.

[justducky]

You sound centered and committed to the mission, EM, but you're the one dealing with consequences. 

You have the right to ask your team about possible outcomes and strategies to head off trouble.

...

Three months, EM.  What happens in 3 months?

You're allowed to ask for lasting protections and ways to enforce Orders without starting over again and again.

It's unlikely that STBX will decide to behave herself especially after the three months are over. You have time to plan on how to handle (or possibly legally prevent) her future offenses, which will likely be the same combinations of charm/self-pity/rage she's done before.

The difference now is that you and SG are physically safe. You can take time to process emotions so you can think straight. Now that you're not being assaulted and undermined daily, you can take steps to create a loving, supportive environment for you and your girls.

[escapingman]

The difference now is that you and SG are physically safe. You can take time to process emotions so you can think straight. Now that you're not being assaulted and undermined daily, you can take steps to create a loving, supportive environment for you and your girls.

That's just it, the order will stand until the divorce is finalised. uNPDX is the one that has been dragging her heels so far, as I now will be allowed to live in the house without her getting near it, suddenly my urgency is gone. If she can't agree to anything, in theory I can stay for year(s). The healing has already started, calmness is bliss. Me and SG went to the supermarket and bought stuuf for having a BBQ, when we came home and were unpacking the shopping SG just stood there looked at me and said "This is so peaceful and quit, I love it".

[JustKeepTrying]

This is great news EM.  I am so glad that you and SG have some safety and serenity.

I know you are doing this but I wanted to offer that you keep an open line to GC so that she knows you are the safe harbor - because there may be a time she needs to be rescued and cared for.  Just keep offering that "I'm here if you need me" statement and it will help in ways you can never imagine.

[escapingman]

This is great news EM.  I am so glad that you and SG have some safety and serenity.

I know you are doing this but I wanted to offer that you keep an open line to GC so that she knows you are the safe harbor - because there may be a time she needs to be rescued and cared for.  Just keep offering that "I'm here if you need me" statement and it will help in ways you can never imagine.

Messaging her all the time telling her I love her and asking how she is, but getting completely ignored so pretty sure how much brain washing is going on.

[losingmyself]

I feel your peace, EM.
So happy for you and your DD. It's like we watched you go through a terrible, terrible storm and now we're watching the clouds part for you.
Wishing many days of sunshine ahead for you and your girls

[hhaw]

EM:

From what you've said, it seems your legal system is a bit more above board than those in our larger cities.... at least the one I have experiece with.

Having filed for a Protective order in a smaller city, I've witnessed the attorneys and Judges work hard to fairly settle cases the day of their hearing, so it gives me hope your system will be fair and rapid too.

Is there any movement on T for the girls to help move them through this chaotic time?

[JustKeepTrying]

EM - it feels harsh now but it will pay off.  Just don't stop reaching out.  Try sending a pic a day, gifs, thoughts, memories and keep going regardless if she responds or not.  I don't mean bombard her but daily reminders so she knows. 

She is not an adult and does not have the processing ability of an adult but there will come a time when someone outside of the family will make a comment and it will click for her.  It took three years for my adult children to see the light.

I am so glad for your peace.

[SonofThunder]

Wow, stbx is out of the house! That is tremendous, EM. I know that GC being with her is a huge blow, but considering what you've been dealing with, I hope you can take a moment and celebrate that victory. That is HUGE.

SoT

[escapingman]

hhaw, there has been little movements as it is the Queens Jubilee here in the UK and school holidays so everything has more or less been shut this week. I hope progress on everything will start next week when social are supposed to interview the girls.

I had a walk with SG last night, she opened up on how she feels and she is so clued up. She told me PDX is still texting her, but that she doesn't reply. She said she wants to reply and feel quilty for not replying, but she said she knows she can't reply as she knows she shouldn't. She also told me she knows her mum will just be nice for a couple of days and then start shouting at her and blame her for talking to the teachers etc. She made it clear to me that she doesn't feel safe with her mum and she wants to stay with me 100% of the time. Then she went on to tell me about other children she knows with divorced parents, how they alternate living with mum and dad but how that could never work for her as mum would never be nice to her. My hearth breaks hearing her talking like this, so understanding about the situation and so full of emotions. She wants her mum, but she knows she can't have her.

We only have a few days so far, but the peace. My body is settling down, it feels so weird to be able to sit in my own home and not worry someone will storm in start shouting at me. I am still on alert, as if she would turn up outside the house or when we are out, but I guess this will take time to heal.