Accidentally found out she died

[stasia]

Hi, everyone. It's been a while since I have been on here, I hope it's OK that I'm back looking for a space to process this.
(To refresh everyone's memory, I'm the one who was threatened with elder abuse/neglect by social workers if I didn't move in with my mother and caregive her, she was a hoarder who also hoarded cats in her house and yard.)

I've overall been doing really well, literally just celebrated my 5-year NC-iversary with unBPDM a couple days ago. My partner and I moved across the country a while back - not just to make it impossible for M to show up at our doorstep but I'd be lying if I said that wasn't a factor - and we're really loving our new city so far. I feel happy in a way that I haven't since, I dunno, my early 20s maybe?  Unfortunately it meant that I had to leave my really good therapist behind as she was only licensed in my previous state. That sucks because I could use a session right now.

I haven't thought about M a whole lot, but recently a relative contacted me on social media. Totally innocuous message, and they're on my dad's side anyway which M didn't have much dealings with after F died. But any time I am contacted by anyone who might know M, I panic and freak out, since she has used relatives to hunt me down on social media before (and, even had ME do that sometime, if someone wasn't answering her phone calls or whatever).

My partner talked me down, I deleted the friend request and blocked the individual in question. Locked down my privacy a bit more since they had reached out on a social media platform that I don't use hardly ever so hadn't been as careful about.

Meanwhile.... Partner gets it into his head to look up M's house on, I guess it was the county's website? IDK. Somewhere where things are public record; he works in real estate and knows how to search for stuff. Since I was panicking about "OMG, something happened to her, someone is going  to haul me by the ear out of the city I moved to and love and make me go back to that house and take care of her."

And.... she doesn't own the house any more. It changed hands a few years ago. Partner showed me how to trace what happened to the property - it looks like something complicated happened financially that I don't quite understand, but he said the house was not foreclosed on because some entry in the list of transactions was missing and would have been there if there was a foreclosure. (She was still paying on her mortgage and owed enough that I don't see her having paid that thing off in the 5 years that we've been NC.) He confirmed with me that the house has new owners and showed me how you can tell.

So then he went on Zillow to look up the house because now he was really curious. And..... I didn't recognize it. Completely gutted and rehabbed, painted white and photographed empty. They even knocked out walls to open up the space. You would never know that a gazillion cats were living in there, that it was hoarded, that she'd let it basically crumble around her since she wouldn't let repair people in for fear they'd report her for having an illegal number of cats. The room she kept the hoard of indoor cats in.... just WOW. It's gorgeous. It was such a dark stinky crappy room.

I do not have any idea what to do with this information!
Off the top of my head, my thoughts are:

I DO NOT HAVE TO DE-HOARD THIS HOUSE. Someone else did it. Who? What happened to all of her stuff? (not to mention, some of MY stuff from childhood was probably in there.) What happened to the gazillion cats in the house, and the other gazillion cats whom she let breed in her yard? It doesn't matter though really because *this is not my problem.* I do not have to fly back there and clean out what has to have been a biohazard, get repairs made, figure out how to rehome a colony of cats because you can't sell a house with unfixed cats running all over the property. This was my fear of what would happen if I got called and told she had died. I literally cried in relief when this part hit me.

Also: I do not have to sort out how to get her to agree to leave the house because she can't handle living there, or shouldn't be living alone, or needs care so the house needs sold to pay for it, or any other scenario that would've involved me trying and failing to persuade her to choose a better living situation for herself.  I do not have to drag her out of there kicking and screaming and THEN dehoard the house while she wails about how I'm not respecting her things and "THAT IS WORTH MONEY". I don't ever have to move back into that house! I do not have to personally take the cats away from her; someone else did that, because even if she got a condo or whatever, she wouldn't be allowed that many so at least some would've been taken away. Honestly, so much bad stuff happened there, I didn't ever want to step foot in there again because I knew it would be retraumatizing, Now I don't have to. Ever. Someone else lives there. Someone else took care of what I always assumed would be my problem, that I didn't have any idea how to solve. This blows my mind.

But....

... This had to have been really really hard for her, and I am sorry for that. I never did wish her ill. I have no way of knowing whether this was voluntary. Did she have to short-sale? Did she stop making payments? (The records just showed no foreclosure but didn't say anything else about circumstance). Did she have to go into a nursing home? Did she WANT to sell? She'd always waver between "I hate this house, too many ghosts here, too much bad shit happened here, I am trapped here" and "this is my home and they will carry me out feet first." With a little "I have nowhere to go, no money, no one would rent or sell to me ever" thrown in.

I did see, in the records, a scan of some of the paperwork. She did sign it, it's her handwriting. You know how those of us with PD parents can read their mood in really little things they say or do? I could always tell whether she was happy or sad or angry or upset by her handwriting, as she'd write me a lot. Her signature looks really, really shaky here, which always meant PISSED.   My inner child kind of cringed when I saw that.

I keep thinking, she must have been SO pissed at me. Because, if we'd been in contact, she would have been pressuring me so hard to help her keep her house that I would've cracked. "Fight for me, Stasia! Respect my wishes, Stasia! You have savings, can't you help me with the mortgage/with the home repairs/feeding my gazillion cats because I can't afford cat food!?" I keep fixating on her being in a rage about "My daughter went NC with me and made me lose my home." Anything bad that happened was always the fault of whoever she thought should be helping her. Which was, of course, me.

Also, I assume the cats were all put down. You can't rehome that many, and even the ones in the house were feral and thus not adoptable, because she didn't socialize them. I do not feel good about this at all.

And leaving all of this aside.... Where the hell is she? Did she have to go into a home? Move somewhere else? I told my partner to stop digging because I am having a hard enough time processing what I already learned and can't take any more. I have not googled for an obit.

I mean, that's the tradeoff about going NC, right? Getting comfy with the idea that something might happen to them and you might not know until it's too late - or ever.

This all happened long enough ago that I have no idea whether the social media contact attempt even has anything to do with her. Which was the whole thing that set me off in the first place!

Anyway. This has been a lot to process and I'm not quite sure HOW to process it, so, thanks for listening.

[Poison Ivy]

I understand that this is a lot to process. I don't have suggestions for how to process the information, other than the following: Just sit with it. Allow yourself to feel the feelings that come, whatever they are. Don't berate yourself. You never had control over your mom, and your thoughts now that you could have dealt with the situation differently than how it played out are only that, thoughts.

[SunnyMeadow]

Stasia, that is a lot to process. The "not knowing" would be eating at me too. You said something though

I mean, that's the tradeoff about going NC, right? Getting comfy with the idea that something might happen to them and you might not know until it's too late - or ever.

that really stands out to me. This is so true, that is the trade off. The good part of this is the past 5 years have be much more calm with way less anxiety for you. Can you imagine being in contact with her during all these changes? It would have been awful.

As far as the cats all being put down, not necessarily. I've watched a few Hoarders episodes, truly shocking conditions where the cats were given medical attention and re-homed. A surprising amount of them too. The ones that needed to be put down were in such a miserable condition that it was the merciful thing to do.

I can imagine your mind is blown on many levels. A big one is you don't have to clean this hoard! How great is this??! Going NC has been a huge gift for you even though your head is spinning right now.

I understand about seeing your mother's shaky signature. I had a similar reaction about this. I've been closing out my mother's estate and noticed her shaky handwriting going back a few years! How come I didn't notice this in person? But really, who writes things in front of other people these days? My mother had this happen when she was angry, confused, anxiety filled and at the end.. just because she was old.

As Poison Ivy wrote, Just sit with it. Feel the feelings and I hope you can keep in mind the true gift you've given yourself by going NC.

This is the perfect place to process these emotions and thoughts.

[FromTheSwamp]

Hi, Stasia!  I think of you often because it was your stories more than anything else that helped me to truly get Out of the FOG. I related so much to your experiences with your mother.

I am in contact still with my mom (she's older than yours, which is part of why), but I took giant steps back from being involved with solving problems for her.  With the help of my therapist I started to understand that my involvement with her not only held me back, but held her back.  She was so focused on showing me how HARD her life was, how much she needed me, that her self-sabotage was unending.  When I stepped back, she moved into assisted living. 

I have to wonder if something similar didn't happen with your mom - she didn't have you to perform to any more, so her terrible living situation stopped serving her. 

Whatever happened though, you were right to get away.  She was destroying you.  And the cats are most likely better off too - some of them will have been rehomed into a better situation, and the ones where that wasn't possible aren't suffering anymore.  But that was never your responsibility, it was always your mother's. 

Save the photos of the house somewhere so you can go back to them later and reassure yourself that it's really all dealt with and clean and not yours to deal with. 

And 

[Fiasco]

Stasia I'm so glad you're back with an update. Wow has it really been five years? Congratulations I'm so happy for you!

Yes that is a tremendous amount to process, whether it's mostly good news or not. I've been on an emotional roller coaster with the home my non PD dad was living in before he suddenly passed away, it was both hoarded and infested and there's nothing like the shock of before and after. If you want to post more we are here for you.

[Pepin]

Wow!  That is a ton to process and I can imagine you are cycling through so many emotions.  Like your partner, I often check the status on my father's house despite being NC.  To date he still owns it and lives there.  It is the only address that is in his name.  I have even checked county records for any permits or loans toward home repair. 

Like your mother, my father is also a massive hoarder.  He never wanted to take responsibility but was content when I helped him organize stuff -- he just couldn't throw stuff away.  I can only imagine how much stuff is in the house and it would seem overwhelming for a man like him to tackle getting rid of stuff without adequate help.

For me, not knowing about anything has been a blessing.  I know that as soon as I learn of anything new, that I likely will be triggered while processing it.  I have no idea what his estate plans are and am incredibly unsettled about that.  I'm sure there will be a catch in the form of some punishment or I am completely cut.  Who knows.

I'm reading both good news and sad news....revel in the good news and process the confusing news in manageable portions if you can...

[xredshoesx]

stasia i'm keeping you in my thoughts as you navigate this,  and liking the suggestion to just sit with this situation without doing anything with it or about it.


i went though my own process when i found out the house i grew up in, was abused in, and ran away from multiple times was foreclosed and then sold.  that was the last physical tie between myself and my uPD biological mother.  that not knowing panic is hard but i'm not trading it for the PEACE i now have not being a part of the disfunction i came from.

for me i do scan the obits and figure if something happens someone will find me if for nothing else to try to get a reaction from me.   for my job i deal with very difficult people on the daily so i don't fold or bend to emotional stuff easily.

[stasia]

Thank you all.

So, it appears that this thread needs to get moved to the new "after they died" board... because I accidentally found out last night that she died a couple months ago. No one contacted me. I guess that's another tradeoff of being NC?

I should feel free and relieved - I do feel some relief but mostly I am numb and in shock. I can't quite get my head around the fact that she isn't coming after me and that I don't have to do anything for her any more.

[stasia]

Hi, Stasia!  I think of you often because it was your stories more than anything else that helped me to truly get Out of the FOG. I related so much to your experiences with your mother.

I appreciate that so much. If my crappy situation could somehow be turned into something that helps others, that makes me feel like... there was some point to it, I guess?

With the help of my therapist I started to understand that my involvement with her not only held me back, but held her back.  She was so focused on showing me how HARD her life was, how much she needed me, that her self-sabotage was unending. 

My T said much the same. That she was an adult and that my constant stepping in was harming her - she didn't say that to make me feel bad or guilty, more like "letting your mom stand on her own 2 feet is the healthy thing to do for you AND her." My T always said that she would find someone else to help her (what was it that WI always used to say, "her phone dials numbers that are not yours") or else figure things out on her own somehow. I never quite believed that, I always assumed she would just lie down on the floor again and refuse to do anything. But who knows.

[SunnyMeadow]

Wow, what a shock to accidentally find out she died. You would think someone could have let you know.

Numb and in shock is a good way to describe it. I kept thinking... that's it?? After all that turmoil, this is it - it's just over? Thinking of you as you process this Stasia.

[FromTheSwamp]

How hurtful to find out that way.  It flabbergasts me that people are really so blind that they believe the messed up stories that PDs tell.  After all you did for your parents.

All the hugs to you, Stasia.

[stasia]

I mean, I had changed my number and blocked the flying monkeys on social media. Though my partner used to work in a field that involves tracking people down and said if someone really wanted to find me, they could have.

I did realize that we haven't been to the PO Box where our mail has been forwarded, for a few weeks. We didn't have a permanent address right away when we moved so I set that up as a forwarding address. The mail had slowed to a trickle so we haven't checked the box in a while. I am worried there is some sort of emotional bomb waiting for me there. Partner is going to drive over there tomorrow and look.

And yes... "that's IT?" is a good description. I said to my partner, "normally it goes 'someone died, you cry, you go to the funeral, you settle their estate, you grieve.' What the hell am I supposed to be DOING right now?"

And like, I feel like I can't even take off work for bereavement because I do not want to explain to my boss why I am not flying home to be with family. And like, if HR asked me for proof of death to grant the leave, they would see that it happened months ago and ugh.

[Pepin]

Thank you all.

So, it appears that this thread needs to get moved to the new "after they died" board... because I accidentally found out last night that she died a couple months ago. No one contacted me. I guess that's another tradeoff of being NC?

I should feel free and relieved - I do feel some relief but mostly I am numb and in shock. I can't quite get my head around the fact that she isn't coming after me and that I don't have to do anything for her any more.

Hi Stasia - I am so sorry for your loss.  Please come over and join us on the new board.  We are all trying to make sense over how to move forward with the accompanying complicated grief that takes place after the passing of a PD.   

[stasia]

Thanks, Pepin. I'm going to post over there. I'm not sure of the protocol as far as whether this thread should get deleted?

[stasia]

Hi - moving this discussion over from the Elderly board, where I initially posted because all I knew at that point is that someone dehoarded, renovated, and bought her house before the pandemic. A day later, I literally found out via my partner's Google search that unBPDM died earlier this year and no one told me.

I've since shared this news with a couple of trusted friends who know the whole story of M and they both were completely shocked, not only by her death but "You're her only child! How did no one contact you?" And I'm like.... well, that's the tradeoff of NC, yeah? Especially when you block the flying monkeys. People aren't going to tell you when she died. Apparently it happened when we literally were in the middle of moving across the country. What would I have done, left my partner to handle the move while I rushed back?

I have no idea who is closing out her estate. Like, do I have some obligation here to try and find out, to reach out to banks where I think she might've still had money if it didn't get eaten up with care? I do know she did not have life insurance.  My instinct is to not touch this situation with a 10-foot pole. I know I was on some of her accounts but I assume that she disinherited me when I went NC. Is that wrong of me?

I have many complicated feelings. Relief, that I will not ever be forced into caregiving her again. Regret, that our relationship had to be that way. Fear, I don't know how she died and what if it is something that runs in the family? I don't feel ready to look up a death certificate or anything though. Honestly, I'm afraid it's going to say she died by suicide and that would undo me. Guilt, that she died not knowing whether I was dead or alive.

I hope she didn't suffer. I never did wish her ill, I just needed her to stop harming my mental health and sucking the life out of me.

I felt weird about telling my boss - how do you explain "yeah, my mom died months ago but I have no idea, I'm mostly fine but kind of out of it and in shock, no I will not be going home for the funeral, please don't send condolence cards, the whole thing's really complicated"? So I worked today.

On one hand I don't feel like anything changed; on the other hand, everything has changed.  Is this normal? Is this going to hit me like a ton of bricks at some point?

[Poison Ivy]

Hi, stasia. I'm sorry you're going through this extremely difficult experience. I understand your mixture of feelings. Among the difficult things about death are the "what ifs" and you are faced with a bunch of them.

I think it's okay to not do anything about the estate at this point. If your involvement is needed, someone will locate you.

[xredshoesx]

Thanks, Pepin. I'm going to post over there. I'm not sure of the protocol as far as whether this thread should get deleted?

we can move it over or leave it as is- let us know what works best for what can help you most right now

[Starboard Song]

My instinct is to not touch this situation with a 10-foot pole. I know I was on some of her accounts but I assume that she disinherited me when I went NC. Is that wrong of me?

No. That is spot on of you. There is nobody out there with any rights you can help vindicate. And you of course aren't interested in showing up on the off-chance there a few dollars headed your way. Your M certainly no longer needs your assistance, and you'll be easy enough to find if an executor needs you.

I think everyone is different, but I truly hope -- and expect, based on yuor description -- that this never does hit you like a ton of bricks. When we go NC, and really get to NC, we accept that the act of NC isn't losing whomever: it is acceptance that we lost them long ago, or they were never there. That is: you didn't lose a loving mother by going NC. So I hope her physical passing never shows up in your mind as "losing" anything either.

Good strength to you.

[xredshoesx]

My instinct is to not touch this situation with a 10-foot pole. I know I was on some of her accounts but I assume that she disinherited me when I went NC. Is that wrong of me?

No. That is spot on of you. There is nobody out there with any rights you can help vindicate. And you of course aren't interested in showing up on the off-chance there a few dollars headed your way. Your M certainly no longer needs your assistance, and you'll be easy enough to find if an executor needs you.

I think everyone is different, but I truly hope -- and expect, based on yuor description -- that this never does hit you like a ton of bricks. When we go NC, and really get to NC, we accept that the act of NC isn't losing whomever: it is acceptance that we lost them long ago, or they were never there. That is: you didn't lose a loving mother by going NC. So I hope her physical passing never shows up in your mind as "losing" anything either.

Good strength to you.

this hit home for both DH and myself-  he has no contact with his birth dad since 20 (he's 47) and i haven't seen or spoken with my biological mother since i was 22 (i'm 50).  when they pass it's just a finality.  we've both accepted the death of the relationship for many years. 

my boss knows a little about the details bc we had to have an awkward conversation that if someone claims being my mother shows up at the building she's not welcome....so i think in that respect i may tell her i needed a day to process if it did happen when we were in session, and i think it's also completely acceptable for you to take a personal day with no explanation if you need to as well without getting into the details with your boss.

holding space for you tonight. 

[stasia]

Thank you all. I am a hyper-responsible person so part of me feels like, well of COURSE I must reach out to.... someone? and see what tasks I need to do to settle the estate even if there is no inheritance. Which I would be shocked if a) there were any money left and b) it was left to me if there were.Because I'm her next of kin and that is just what one DOES.

My partner is, as we speak, driving over to our PO box, where we were getting all our mail forwarded from our previous city since we didn't have a permanent address right away when we moved, we were subletting at first. I'm nervous about what might be in there, as we hadn't checked it for a few weeks because nothing really was still coming there. He has instructions that if there is anything that comes directly from M, he is to toss it out unopened.

I agree with you guys about accepting NC. I've felt like she's gone, for a while. Except for the fear that I was going to get dragged back there and forced to care for her, or clean out her hoard, or persuade her to go into a facility or accept any sort of medical care because she'd stopped going to the doctor many years ago and quit her blood pressure and heart meds.

nd you'll be easy enough to find if an executor needs you.

This makes me nervous. Because, I was the executor for her will. Obviously she must've redone that, and also the POA because I was that too. There are a few family members (whom she hated) who MIGHT have become executor, but, well, they probably have PDs too and I am not looking forward to the reaming I will get from them should they reach out. "WE HAD TO TAKE CARE OF HER AND HANDLE HER AFFAIRS AND THAT WAS YOUR JOB." This is what I'm afraid is waiting for me at the PO box. (ETA: there was nothing waiting for me at the PO box.)