Playing the game

[escapingman]

uNPDx is playing the game, if I had a text book she would be follow it step by step. How do I expose her to important people that just can't see it?

Out of the blue, after more than 3 months of my daughter (GC) staying with uNPDx and her ignoring my other daughter (SG) staying with me I got a message from the social worker that GC suddenly want to meet up. This is something I have been pushing for for months, but got nowhere with. They meet under the supervision of the social worker, then she drives them home, GC first, to where she lives right now with uNPDx, uNPDx comes out and forces herselves to cuddle and talk to SG. Social worker now thinks their relationship is repaired and is happy with this. Then she comes back to ours with SG and want a chat with me, beaming with joy for SG and uNPDx seeing each other. Telling me that GC is not ready to see me yet but she is working on it. WTF. I obviously have to keep my cool as this social worker is the one who will recommend custody to the court. She now wants to arrange another meetup between SG and uNPDx as all is fine now, but nothing for me and GC as GC is not ready. Then on the way out suggesting we should give items to uNPDx whilst at swap over activity, cause now she thinks all is good for SG to see uNPDx again. WTF. I have to agree again as she will determine the custody. Then at the activity and the swapover, uNPDx of course brought uNPDmil and for the first time in 6 months she speaks to SG and she is nice as pie. Apparently on top of all this uNPDx is remorseful for her abuse caught on my recordings and assured the social worker it will never happen again.

How do I even start stopping this clear charade to be nice as pie to con the social worker to award her custody?

[escapingman]

I thought I started to get better, but I really feel sick about what happened yesterday. In 2 months the social worker is supposed to recommend to court about custody, and suddenly they are all smiling in front of her. I don't even get a chance to tell my side of the story, she was her 5 minutes yesterday and DD was listening to the conversation behind the door. What I can't get is that DD had said she did not want to see her mum, and GC had said she did not want to see me, but SS worker happily took DD with her in the car to uNPDx and let her see DD. DD said to me afterwards she was overwhelmed and did not have a choice, she told me that she know exactly what is going on and that as soon as all this is over they will go back to how things were.

This is my toughest battle so far, how do I deal with this social worker that seems to be hell bent on repairing uNPDx and DD's relationship and still allowing GC to have more and more time which will just keep being more time. This SS worker is the one who determines the custody so can't even make any complaints.

What really gets me back into the dark places I were in the relationship is the entitlement from both uNPDx and uNPDmil. They both think they can just take, take and take. And now, the took again. They had no right to force themselves upon DD and force contact. I would never do that to GC, I would never have forced GC to a hug if she had not said she wanted one beforehand.

I feel sick.

[Andeza]

Hey EM, sometimes children of PDs (I know this firsthand) have certain defense mechanisms and responses forced to shut down. In your DD's case she may not realize when she doesn't want to have contact with people, she has every right to say "No!" I highly recommend that you sit down with her and essentially give her permission to say no to the proverbial "anybody including family" that she doesn't want touching her. You don't have to name her M and Gma, they're included in that statement. There are plenty of resources online about teaching body autonomy that can help you find your words. You don't want her spouting off "Dad said I didn't have to let you hug me!" That wouldn't sound as good as "I don't want to hug you."

You may find as time goes by that she also has issues trusting her instincts, and that she potentially overlooks certain toxic behaviors in friends, and later on, in boyfriends. She's going to need help relearning these skills most likely. The formation of them would have happened by now, but her M has likely shut them down or damaged them over time with the abuse.

[escapingman]

What a surprise, with the meeting between the sisters and the SS girl out of the way GC ignored DD in school again. I am getting P I S S E D off with the SS girl for believing the charade.

[guitarman]

I can relate to what you posted about although our situations are different.

My uBPD/NPD sister is a good actor. She can put on a good performance when she needs to. On one occasion she was calm and charming to police and ambulance workers after I had called for them because she had been raging and threatening suicide. She sweet talked her way out of any action being taken.

You have recorded evidence of sustained abuse over a long time. That should not be ignored, but it is.

My frail, elderly mother was under safeguarding in order to protect her from my sister. After a few months the safeguarding team said that the crisis was now over and ended the safeguarding. The crisis and dramas are never over. My sister will never change. There may be short periods of stability, but her abusive behaviour will never change. I can never trust her not to be abusive again, so I have ended contact with her.

I know people living with BPD who have had long term specialist treatment lasting many years. They no longer meet the criteria for a diagnosis of BPD and are living successful lives. So, it is possible but only with specialist care. 

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

Thanks GM, I can see what pain you went through and my worry is that GC will become just like her mum.

I had a long talk with my solicitor yesterday (costing me a fortune) but she is good and she is willing to me educating her about the abuse and parental alienation. DD is furious for being used like this, she can see right through it all as well. She is complaining about how the SS worker is more interested in reuniting her with her mum than listening to what abuse she was put through.

I don't have much more to say right now than thanks so much to this community as I would never in a million years been able to fight it like this without you all.

[escapingman]

Have had some more chats with DD and it is clear I put to much trust into the social worker, she is actually harming DD right now. Apparently she has been telling DD that she will be having her sibling contact with uNPDx sister soon (also a Narc but more overt). I have categorically said no to her supervising before and I have no idea how the social worker think it is appropriate to tell DD this. DD is worried about this as she doesn't know her and I am worried as I know she would just do whatever to back whatever uNPDmil tells her to do.

Next week will be a big one to try to get the social worker exposed and removed.

[rockandhardplace]

Sorry if you've already explained this but has the sw listened to the abuse tapes?  Have you got Mandy Matthewson's book on PA? It's expensive but now I wish I'd got a hard copy so I could photocopy the parts that are for mental health professionals as seems like they all fall for PD lies. Unfortunately I really don't think that anyone understands the impact of emotional abuse. Sorry I should say no one in the system. Social workers are not trained to understand the intense damage to the victim and to the kids. It's glossed over. I know some dv agencies do understand emotional abuse but they aren't part of the system 😡

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

IME, Parent Alienation is a very difficult and challenging concept to be addressed in the court system - which is a shame.

escapingman - I don't have any great words of wisdom except for what you are already doing - and you know, focus on the facts and avoid using any labels (I'd even avoid using the PA word); describe the behavior and how it is impacting your family  I'd do the same for the social worker - list out all the concerns you have with her actions and what she has said to you/your family.  Then, I'd focus on what is your request for a sw to do?  and based on what?

Unfortunately, I think it is difficult for fathers regarding being alienated from their children for the courts to understand.  And, PD's are brilliant actors and even better under stress, when we, at times, crumble under all the unfairness and the PD's lies.

You are doing the best you can.  Good Job.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your replies.

Leaving the court aside as that's a separate discussion and I am dealing with in another forum and with solicitor. But in short sw worker is doing the assessment on behalf of cafcass, but she doesn't seem to have the same level of skills as a cafcass worker is supposed to have.

Sw has listened to some of the recordings, which is why I am confused how she can on one hand say they are awful and on the other brush it over and say STBX now has reflected on it and is no longer a threat. Not sure but the sw priority should be safety for the children, not for reuniting an abusing mother with her abused child. She is making me the villain for not accepting anything from STBX, they have offered supervision by 3 different people, all in camp STBX. The people suggested by me has been shot down in flames, but I am still the one supposed to compromise.  I suppose my impossible task is to make the sw see, but I know she is currently being hood winked and getting through the entire brain washing victim campaign, love bombing and the lot by STBX and MIL. I think it was gross misconduct when sw took DD and without any notice allowed STBX to see her. All this is wearing both me and DD down, it's now the social worker acting like a flying monkey for STBX. But this is not a fight I can avoid fighting, if I allow things to go down the current route I will lose everything and probably never see GC again and quite possible have DD taken away as well.

I am pulling my hair out.

[escapingman]

Is this stalking?

DD is very active on her social media and her and all her friends keep sharing all kind of stuff, mostly silly things but also what they are up to etc. STBX is treating this as the updates being sent to her and she is sending comments to DD asking her if she was having a good time etc, I didn't know about this kind of things but now I do. DD is getting more and more distressed about this and branded it herself as she is being stalked. I am also feeling very unease about this as I know she would be sitting there waiting for anything she thinks is inappropriate and then use it against me. We looked through the settings and now she has blocked STBX and GC from seeing what she posts, but this is just creepy.

[guitarman]

I can relate to your post. The stress, worry and anxiety can all become unbearable which can effect your thinking and body which then makes it even more difficult to cope and function. I know how that feels. It can become a vicious cycle.

You need lots of support. As you know I found support by going to mental health carers support groups and from my local carers centre. There I found legal expertise and support from other people going through similar situations. You may feel that no one else is experiencing what you have endured but I can assure you that they have, and even worse.

Please make contact with them if you haven't done so already.

It is a necessary function to talk about our fears, worries and feelings. Otherwise we can develop our own mental health issues. You need to stay strong for yourself and for the sake of your children.

You can find your local UK carers centre here

https://carers.org/

Keep calm. Keep strong. Keep safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

GM, thanks for your reply.

Her constant messaging and now demands through the social worker is messing with my head. DD says she takes screen shots if messages and who knows what she do with them. As she has manufactured stories out of thin air in the past I am sure she is trying to create something to use. I am not sure how to proceed on this but her direct contact with DD has to be cut.

[escapingman]

I hear you user I hear you, but I just can't let go of what I can influence. I have a duty to my children to try save them from the worst possible scenario. I can't even begin to think what would happen is STBX would have unsupervised overnights with both GC and DD. She is going to punish DD at first chance, as far as STBX is concerned DD has dragged social services in to her life and turned on a flood light exposing her abuse. GC is still not speaking to DD (other than for show for sw), she will have been listening to STBX complaining about me and DD for months and how horrible we are. With fresh in my mind how GC used to attack DD backed by her mum when I was in the house I can only image what would happen when no one is there to stop them and protect. At the same time, GC has to get out of there, she is living in a cult with STBX and MIL, both feeding her lies (I really don't need to be there to know what is being said).

I thought I was doing reasonable OK but I really had the rug swept from under my feet with this last charade.

[escapingman]

I have been reading a bit aboud C-PTSD flashbacks, I think this is it - see my copied text below. Since I heard about the incident with STBX and her hood winking the social worker I can't get out of fight mode. It's like a switch was just turned and I can't get it turned off. All I can do is ruminate and think about how to win this fight, a fight that maybe not even exist. I am going crazy. My heart is beating so hard and then DD triggered me even more by using one of STBX cups for her drink, that made my body tense and reminded me about her being in the house. I will need to pack them all up and hide so I don't have to see them again.

Symptoms of C-PTSD Flashbacks are:

Compulsive thinking: A person with PTSD is more often than not in a state of fight/flight. They have not yet learnt to use the 'off' switch. As a result, different situations will trigger varying levels of fight/flight. To help the person cope, their mind goes into overdrive, trying to find a solution for the underlying terror. The problem is that the situation that caused the fight/flight state to turn on is now gone, and the mind is trying to fight a demon that no longer exists. 'Ruminating' about it will not help. Ruminating in general will not help. Those with C-PTSD think about everything and anything constantly. In reality, they are creating a diversion from what they feel inside, to ensure it does not enter consciousness. When you sense your mind going into overdrive, you need to become mindful of what lies beneath the thoughts: high emotional arousal and an activated fight/flight response.

[Starboard Song]

Is this stalking?

DD is very active on her social media and her and all her friends keep sharing all kind of stuff, mostly silly things but also what they are up to etc. STBX is treating this as the updates being sent to her and she is sending comments to DD asking her if she was having a good time etc

I personally do not think that is stalking. However, it is an excellent lesson for your DD on the realities of social media. We shouldn't post publicly to the world anything we don't want interested parties observing. And of course any mother would want to see such posts and comment on them. To me, stalking is when someone takes surprising or unreasonable steps to follow us or intrude on our privacy. Reading publicly available posts and commenting on them seems not at all surprising.

You did exactly the right thing by blocking parties that shouldn't see her posts, and should consider taking further steps by setting all her accounts to private and discouraging things that evade the private setting, like hashtags.

[escapingman]

I personally do not think that is stalking. However, it is an excellent lesson for your DD on the realities of social media. We shouldn't post publicly to the world anything we don't want interested parties observing. And of course any mother would want to see such posts and comment on them. To me, stalking is when someone takes surprising or unreasonable steps to follow us or intrude on our privacy. Reading publicly available posts and commenting on them seems not at all surprising.

You did exactly the right thing by blocking parties that shouldn't see her posts, and should consider taking further steps by setting all her accounts to private and discouraging things that evade the private setting, like hashtags.

Maybe I wasn't clear on the post, the status was posted on a story but the message was sent private to DD acting like the initial post on her story line was directed to STBX. But I do agree that anything posted online is there for everyone, it served a good lesson to DD and hopefully she is a bit more careful now.

[xredshoesx]

escaping man

speaking from the perspective of an adult child who was IN THE SYSTEM and who could not live with either parent or grandparents due to the situation and who eventually was placed in foster care for the remainder of HS

you can;t control the system.  the system has been, and always will never be fair to everyone involved. the entire focus of the court system is to 'reintegrate' the family unit; even if the family unit is one like many of us grew up in.

at some point both your children will be adults.  they will make their own choices as to which parent(s) if any they want to have familial relationships with.  my concern for your kids is the animosity in the entire situation is going to make it impossible for them to have any sort of relationship with one another.   my best advice would be to ask for support for them to help them repair their relationship with each other first and foremost and if they can figure out what is going on with their mother and the courts it's your best shot at getting them through this ordeal intact as a family. 

right now pretty much everything you share is like in this corner it';s you and one kid vs the ex and the other in the other corner and reading the play by play here is like watching WWE, and there's enough identifiable details still that it is entirely possible one or both of your kids could find you here and become even angrier.  at you. 

the kids may not know all the nuances yet but they will figure it out as they mature.  focus on getting a relationship with them where they feel safe to tell you things without every single thing becoming evidence (even if it is) against their parent.  what kind of tools are you learning to help model for them the behaviors they can use as a response to their mother's actions?   you can't protect them when they are with her but you can equip them with the social/emotional skills they need to learn to deal with their mother when they are in her custody.   

as far as the advice getting these posts are still straying in that territory.  we can;t dispel legal/ clinical advice.   please be careful what you share/ overshare.  remember,  kids will still defend a parent they feel allegiance too- even if that parent is abusive (pretty much stockholm syndrome).

[escapingman]

redshoe,

I have been fighting from day 1 for the kids to re establish their relationship. DD is telling me she is just having had enough trying as well as she is fed up with being used. I am allowing her to do or say whatever she feels like, but she says she can't take the manipulations from her mum and sister anymore. She is angry that the sw is not listening to her. I feel I am fighting a losing battle, I am fighting for my kids but no one  else can see that.  All I want is my kids to be safe from the abuser, that's all I want.

[escapingman]

Thank you all for your messages and support. It is clear I need to stop trying to control what is going on, but it is so difficult when I can see the hurt and damage being caused and the safety of my children is top of the list. But I have to to let go, they will have to find out for themselves and fight for them selves. I will of course be there for them helping them and weaponizing them if they are ready for it. But trying to expose the narcissist(s) is taking a toll and is wearing my down completely. I won't stop fighting, but I will have to accept they are what they are and whatever I do they will double up and do more.

I came across this video on one of my favourite youtubers channel, it is so good for my current situation and where I am in the process. I just need to accept, let go and move on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQpK9PuXHug