I am exhausted

[escapingman]

I am not sure where to put this as there isn't really any coparenting or secondary relationship, but it is over a year since the divorce and two since last speaking to uNPDwx.

Backstory for anyone not knowing it, I am living with DD and have sole custody of her. DD2 lives with uNPDxw who in turn has sole custody of her. I didn't see DD2 for over a year but started seeing her last summer hand has seen her every now and then, I have even managed to get her with us on an overnight stay in a hotel 4 hours away. I am trying to rebuild the relationship, but this is hard and exhausting, DD2 has her guard up and tries to find faults to report back to her mum. However last couple of times things have been better and she has recently agreed to go on holiday with me and DD. This is obviously very exciting, but I am also worried sick about it if it is all a trap and some false accusations will come out of it. uNPDxw made up some false accusations half a year ago and made DD2 report them to school, this mainly to cover up that she had ended up shouting at DD outside our house. School fell for this and reported to social who immediately closed the case. Since this episode DD has refused to see her mum and have had just a few messages over the course of six months, although she saw her mum briefly when collecting DD2 a while ago.

I am not really sure where I am going with this, but I am getting tired and worn out. I am doing 100% of all chores for DD, taking her to out of school activities which is now up to 7 days a week, driving DD to and from the bus stop for school, obviously cooking etc as well. Now one of the activities DD has is playing for a sports team in a town 1.5 hours drive away and going there twice a week. uNPDxw taked DD2 to one after school activity per week, this is shared with her mum. DD2 makes her own way to school and cooks her own food.

When I am to see DD2 I have to collect her from uNPDxw and then later drive her back, EVERY time. If DD wants a lift from her, which she hasn't asked for since the episode 6 months ago she can't afford the petrol to drive her (in her electric car). She can't have DD over even if DD wants to because she is replacing a carpet. She can't do anything with DD over the summer holidays as she can't afford it. uNPDwx is still the biggest victim in the world and keep playing the I am broke card, now she has injured herself as well and can do even less. However, all these excuses DD would at the moment refuse to stay over there anyway - I keep asking her but she keep saying no. I understand her, maybe it is best for her to have zero contact?

I am so exhausted, I feel like uNPDxw is dropping DD completely and all responsibility as her mum. AND.... I feel she is about to try to outsource as much as possible with DD2 to me as well. Not sure how to cope with that, but............

I am so happy, life is great on the other side. I really hope the fog is lifting for DD2, I really do.

 

[Rebel13]

Hi escapingman! It sure sounds like you could use some help. It sounds like you really can't expect anything from your ex, so I would quit taking my bucket to that empty well and look for other resources.

I don't know how old is the daughter who lives with you, but are there some things she could start learning to do for herself? Could she fix her own breakfast and/or lunch? Could she learn to do some laundry or basic chores around the house -- putting her own things away, for a start? Sweeping or cleaning carpets? This kind of self-care is really good for everyone to learn how to do and will make her feel confident and competent in the long run. It could also be a fun bonding experience, if done correctly, for the two of you, when you teach her how to do these things.

If she's not old enough for this, is it financially feasible to hire some help for a few hours a week, perhaps to do basic cleaning or cooking? Then that would be one problem solved.

Secondly, are there things that can be dropped from the to-do list? Sometimes there just isn't time/energy for everything, and if you're like me, insecurity and perfectionism can make that hard to see.

Third, can other parents help? Can you trade some transportation to/from school or activities with other families that live near you, or the families of your daughter's friends? They might also be feeling overwhelmed and be grateful for some relief and help.

Good luck and hang in there! I know parenting is a huge challenge!

[escapingman]

Thanks for your suggestions Rebel.

DD is 15 and I am really trying my hardest to make her more self sufficient and to do some basic shores. Problem is that it is just not sticking, she comes home from school and litter the hall with her school stuff, throwing her school uniform all over the stair and landing before getting changed. If I can get her to just do basic tidying up a big battle is won, I am going to try to get it in as a condition for giving her lifts to activities. Getting to the bus stop she should really be able to do herself,  its a twenty minute walk but I have just not had the energy for that argument. She is always late and if I don't take her she would be late to school, however she will have to face the consequences of being late going forward.

Asking other parents for help is something I am terrible at, I just hate asking for help. I know it is something I need to get better at, but I feel like as soon as I ask I am being judged for asking for help. DD is almost at the stage where she can stay home alone for a night, but again I am scared for being judged by others for being irresponsible.

I definitely dropped the idea of ever asking uNPDxw to step in, if I for some reason can't take DD or arrange for someone else to take her she can ask her mum herself if she wants to. The really difficult bit is that the entire family on uNPDxw side have all dropped DD like she doesn't exist, she receives gifts for birthday and Christmas but no contact. My own FOO has also showed their true colours and after me stopping dancing to their tunes they dropped us all as well. But, I feel OK with this as I was only ever a caretake and entertainer for them.

I feel a bit better today strength wise, I was exhausted when posting the above. In general I am feeling great, to have a PD free life is just so good. 

[Rebel13]

So glad you are feeling better today, and I know sometimes one just needs to vent!

I have a lot of trouble asking for help too. I am working hard at believing I deserve it, for a start! Another tactic I try is thinking about it from the other side. If someone asks me for help, how do I feel? I'm usually tickled, frankly, and very happy if I am able to help someone else out. If I can't, or don't want to, that is OK too, and it's up to me to take care of my own needs -- but I don't think I usually judge someone for asking! So other people probably aren't judging us either.

Good luck with everything, and I know that getting out from under abuse is one of the greatest feelings in the world, even if one sometimes still has tough days.

[square]

Yeah, you have a lot on your shoulders.

And DD needs to step up.

Love your idea of conditioning rides to activities on her doing basic cleanup after herself. The key is to just let that condition do the work. No need to get upset or nag. Nope, you can't give a ride since she didn't ___. I know she'll blow up at you. You can shrug and say if it's important to her, she'll clean up next time. Just stick with telling her it's HER choice. I know, she'll make it your fault, but you can go full teflon on what she says and stick with "your choice" and "if it's important to you."

Also, when I've let DD take a natural consequence, those have been VERY instructive. Let her be late to school. It's not just to make your life easier. It's about her neing capable of taking care of herself instead of blaming the nearest scapegoat - Dad. She will literally be a happier adult if she can manage herself. It's miserable and anxiety producing to have to depend on others to get you out of your own messes.

I hope you are feeling better. Also hoping the holiday goes great.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Escapingman,

It is good to see you are on the other side of the PD marriage, I remember your challenges in getting to where you are today. Kudos to you for all the hard stuff you've been through!

The PD parent is not a healthy parent. That is an understatement right? They have good days and bad days, they have good moods and bad moods, and their children never get any real stability - because the PD has no stability with their behaviour or mood...one day they are this, the next day it is that. And our kids grow up in that. I also grew up in that mess of having a PD parent.

During the teen years, I wanted my child to learn responsibility, just like you write about here. And I had to figure out how to deal with the 'damage' that had been caused by the PDs in the family system. The thing that the PD's in our family system all have in common is that they are terrible at taking responsibility and they are very good at playing the victim - as you are seeing with your ex.

So the kids do not know how to talk about this, but they have been around a lot of unhealthy stuff from those adults. Then there's ONE person in the system (you, me) who wants this cycle of misery to end, and wants the child to learn healthy stuff like putting away their book bag after school and so on. The child looks at us like we have just said something in another language, and refuses to do the small house chores we ask of them.

I have come to see how much I was trying to do as the one adult in the entire system who had come out of denial and was trying to give the kids in the family, the things that all these disordered adults could not give them. And it is exhausting right? Because you are just one person, and everyone else in the family refuses to step up and help. I hear you on that.

Teens don't see the big picture that you do. They see what they want to see, and they are focused on what is important to them. And it definitely isn't chores lol. I say that as a parent, who muddled through some of the same thing you are muddling through.

My take on your ex is that she has no idea what is actually going on and what affect she has on her 2 kids. She's in victim mode. It is all about her.

I suspect that one of the reasons we end up with teens who are slow to take on these little independent moves like getting to school on time (which should not be that hard for them) is that they don't know what being independent will result in. They have a parent playing the victim and acting as if the sky will fall if they take responsibility for anything. I do wonder about how this affects the way our kids think as teens (this is just a theory I have, after going through this, and looking at how I dealt with having a "poor is me" parent myself). Kids with parents like your ex, can do a few different things to cope.

What I did was I became really independent, because it got me away from the abuse. The more I could do on my own, the less I had to deal with my PD parent as a teen. 

But I wonder if a lot of kids fear if they start to do things independently, will dad just forget about them? I do wonder if our kids have a healthy sense of what we will do once they become more independent as they go through the teen years. They have not had as many healthy role models for independence, as we would have wanted for them. Yes they have had us, and they are likely scared to grow up.

They get our attention when they don't do the things we want them to do around the house. And when the other parent is SO emotionally neglecting, getting our attention is huge for our kids - but since they are still teens, they can't really articulate any of this can they? No teen ever says "hey dad I'd like to talk with you about my attachment system when you try to get me to do more on my own".

You are doing the right things. You can't make these other immature adults in your life grow up and grab a clue. They dropped the ball so it is no wonder you get exhausted.

Trees

[escapingman]

Thank you all for your replies and support.

DD is going to have her summer holidays now and most of her activities will get a break. I have told her that when she goes back to school in the autumn things will change, they have to. I am already working towards making her more confident and independent, this week she wanted her nails done and she wanted me to book the appointment and to take her to it doing the talking. I managed to get her to both book it herself and go there herself, a big step and a big move away from caretaking to much.

I have asked DD if she can stay at a friends house for a few days to give me a short break and some alone time. She suggested she will ask her mum, I fully support that if that is what she wants, but I don't expect it to go as well as she might think. But I will never stop her seeing her mum as long as it's safe, DD is now much stronger than both uNPDxw and her sister so physically I see no real danger. Emotionally is another thing though, but she has healed a lot and she can bite back. If things go bad she will just cut contact again, and if she needs to exit she has plenty of friends she could go to if I am not around.

I have changed my mindset a lot lately and try to be positive, it works most of the time but there are days it just doesn't work. Especially days when DD test me, I don't think she does it on purpose but she cuts corners and ignore rules she knows are there. But when she does it I try to think its not about me, its her and while trying to tell her to not do it again just stay focused on being happy.

Me and DD are going away for a long weekend this weekend, I am looking forward to that.

[Rebel13]

Good for you escapingman! It sounds like you are handling things the best way you can. I'm glad you may get some alone time as well as some vacation time with your daughter. I hope you have a lovely time and get the rest and recuperation you need. And congrats on being such a great parent, teaching your daughter the skills she'll need as she gets older. It's always easier to give in, so hang in there doing what you know is right. I believe she'll thank you one day.

[square]

A really great update and a great plan.

Great work on having her deal with her own appointment. It's a problem in my house too. You've inspired me to resolve to have DD make her next hair cut appointment.

One thing I've drawn a hard boundary on is college stuff. I will offer her endless support and advice if she wants but I absolutely refuse to actually do any of the tasks. No, I won't fill out the form. Absolutely not, will not email anybody or call anybody. Hard no. I'm shocked DD finds it reasonable to even ask. It took her some time but now she is emailing and calling the admissions office and so on. She does have anxiety about it but it's time to step up. I am willing to help her with scripts, and she needs less and less handholding over time. And she says after an initial anxiety spike, she feels less anxious overall because she can handle it herself instead of being at my mercy.

[square]

I informed DD she'll be making her next hair appointment, as a heads up. 👍

She said "nope, not happening."

I told her that her hair will look lovely long 👍

If she wants her hair cut, I'll be available to coach her through the call

[escapingman]

Well done Square, hope it works out fine.

I struggle a bit with DD and her attitude on this trip. We went for an event and met a few of my friends. She is extremely possessive of me and keep asking me to ditch them and only be with her. It's very rough as I spend ALL time at home with her and take her to activities all the time. After the event yesterday we went for a pizza and a couple of beers, it went OK until she eaten and immediately started to complain and wanted back to the hotel. Some of the friends I had not seen for many years even decades due to the isolation uNPDxw put me in. I am not sure really how to deal with this, I understand her that is a bit boring to hang out with dad and his friends but as a 15 year old I think you should be able to put up with a few hours.

She says I should just leave her hone next time or for her to stay at her mums or be allowed a friend. The staying with her mum will be fine one time and it will go bad, but maybe hest let that happen and very soon. Ideally she should have had her sister with her and they could entertain each other, but they have a very fragile relationship at the moment. UNPDXW has completely divided them as me and DD and her and DD2 which makes it hard.

We have one day left and my friends wants to see us again today but DD think it's unfair. I really struggle with this as I think she really is unfair. However, I will go shopping with her first and then see how that goes.

Sorry for a rant but not many others understand.

[square]

Hey EM, I hope it worked out ok.

Since my DD was a teen, I've tried to include friends on trips wherever possible. I find it easier and she's entertained. Also I had some flexibility on doing some stuff without her. Plus, I happen to like teens and I like to get to know her friends.

It so happens we are right now visiting my mom and we have her friend with us.

[escapingman]

Thanks Square, it worked out very well. We did some shopping and then met my friends to grab to eat, we got DD's favourite so no issues! I think this is a tricky part of her life as she need to separate from me but at the same time depend on me. I did let her have some time on her own in the city, she did well and were very brave. We were sitting down at a café nearby so she knew where we were.

I am hoping to get a week with both DD and DD2 over the summer. I am worried about it as they are so different and uNPDxw has really got it into DD2's head that we are two opposite teams and that the divorce included her divorcing me and DD. DD2 has got a few items that DD want to borrow, but she is told DD2 got them in the divorce so therefor she cant have them. DD has explained until she is blue in the face that she doesn't want the items, just borrow them but with no success. Last time DD2 was here I tried to talk to her about that all their items are really shared, that they are in different houses doesn't really matter and they should be able to move the items between the houses without any issues, but DD2 and uNPDxw are still stuck in the divorce and being victims.

 

[escapingman]

I am feeling reasonable good but I am continually exhausted. It's the school holidays and I have indirectly being exposed more to uPDxw and her difficulties. I am trying to communicate with DD2 but she rarely replies, or replies with a one word message or it's an essay which is clearly written by uPDxw. We are trying to organise a holiday for me, DD and DD2 and DD2 comes up with all kind of obstacles and now when I found something she is blanking me. I have a bad feeling about it all anyway and I suspect after I book and pay for something she will find a reason to back out. Last one I asked her if she wanted to come with us she never replied and I went on my own with DD. At the same time we just found out that uPDxw just went on a short holiday with DD2 and not inviting DD, but from the holiday DD2 sent DD lots of pictures saying wish she was there. When DD replied she wasn't invited she was just told they could not afford an extra bed so she could not come. DD naturally got very pissed off about it, but now she has been invited for a meal and she jumps on it - this despite she has commitments and can't go. I am getting tired of doing all the basic work, driving DD everywhere and organising activities and uPDxw just do whatever she likes and DD jumps.

Sorry for the rant, it's just one of those days and I am tired.

[verum71]

As I am reading your message, it strikes me as your DD2 daughter seems to be bent on behavior that is designed to "punish" her sister (and you for that matter).  Your ex and DD2 daughter go on a vacation that DD daughter is not invited to and then she sends pictures to kind of "rub it in" for lack of a better term.  I'm sure these actions were promoted by your ex and have been normalized by your ex when your kids are with her.  Not sure how old your kids are - I have run into similar problems with my youngest daughter (17), and my struggle is that I feel she is old enough to know better and should be able to realize that her behavior is designed to punish and hurt someone.  Sorry you are going through this.

[square]

That sounds tiring indeed.

As a rule, I don't chase people down. If I invite someone on a holiday and I'm getting wishy washy responses or told a bunch of obstacles or whatever, I take that as a no.

I would just say "well, I'm going to be booking it tomorrow night, let me know by 5pm if you want to come. Hope you can join us!" And if no reply, it's a no.

If I'm told a bunch of obstacles (my DD does this sometimes), the third one I say "there are solutions to that, but it sounds like you'd rather not do this, which is fine." She gets cranky to that but it changes the dynamic. I do not like being in the position of standing on my head coaxing someone into something. If they want to do it, great. If they don't, fine. But I'm not going to beg.

I am quite aware this will then be leveraged against you somehow later and twisted into somehow you excluding her. So you just shrug and say you really hoped she would accept your invitation and was disappointed she couldn't make it - but hopefully next time!

And just refuse to JADE, which in this case means not actually responding to the false accusations (but I asked you! I tried to make it work!) and simply repeating your (mild and non-judgmental) disappointment that SHE CHOSE not to go.

I hear ya about being the stable parent and doing all the work and getting no appreciation and all DD's mom has to do is offer a meal and suddenly DD is excited and grateful for basically nothing. It must be hard for DD to want a connection with her mom when it's so difficult and so many games are played and hopes are dashed and moments that feel good are fleeting and revealed to be hollow lies.

I guess the way DD appreciates you will be invisible. She does it by being herself with you. We all know how dealing with a PD makes us all sick and stressed. Even if your DD is excited about this, she will also feel sick about it sooner or later. Even if it goes perfectly, later she will have reason to question it. You're doing great. It's a thankless task but worthwhile.

[square]

PS: my DD had said "absolutely not" to making her next haircut appointment. Something similar came up in conversation and I reinforced she'd be doing that, and she groaned but did not argue lol 💪

[escapingman]

Thanks for your inputs, I am going to write a longer update later. I just wanted to say I am seriously considering leaving DD2 behind for this holiday. She is treating both me and DD with real contempt and is making up reasons to complain about us both to PDxw. I am tired of only getting short responses on any attempt of contact I do and then here from DD how she is complaining about the lack of care from me. She is my daughter and I love her, but how much am I supposed to let her get away with? She is old enough to start having to face the consequences of her behaviour. Through the divorce she was empowered by both social services and school who all believed her lies about me and the consistent defending of PDxw despite evidence she was protecting PDxw. I want to and have left all this behind, I am not sure I can risk my peace because I am supposed to always want my child. I know DD2 is severely damaged by PDxw and I am worried she is growing into become a PD herself based on her behaviour which is mirroring PDxw to a tea.

Maybe I just need to stop letting her get away with this and if needed cut the tie. Maybe this would be the only way for her to realise, or not. DD2 is only a few years off being counted as an adult, but behaves like she is 5.

[square]

I just wanted to say I am seriously considering leaving DD2 behind for this holiday.

I don't know if she has explicitly agreed to go with you or not. But honestly it sounds like maybe it's not so much you leaving her behind as her not wanting to go. If that seems fair, frame it that way.

She is my daughter and I love her, but how much am I supposed to let her get away with? She is old enough to start having to face the consequences of her behaviour.

Yes, as her loving father, you guide her to well adjusted adulthood, and shielding her from consequences does not acheive that. Again, see this and speak of this as HER choices, not yours.

Maybe I just need to stop letting her get away with this and if needed cut the tie.

Your choices aren't only chasing her down vs cutting her off. Practice good boundaries with her, including empowering her to make her own choices.

She can choose to not reply to your invitation to a holiday. Instead of chasing her down, respect her choice and leave the door open for next time.

She can choose to give you snippy and rude answers over text. You can say "ok, sounds like that's a no" and move on with your plans.

You can also say "I love you, kiddo, and I want to see you and maintain a relationship with you. But it seems to me like you would like some space from me right now. I'll be here anytime, and will check in with you again here and there."

Thus underlining HER choices.

[Rebel13]

This is great stuff, square, I love this.