Warning - Mentions SA

[Beachlife]

My spouse and I sleep in separate rooms and haven't been intimate in at least 3 years. Twice in the last couple of months he has come into my bed after drinking, while I'm sleeping and tried to touch me.

The first time we were on holiday with the kids. It wasn't long after he split on a Friday night where the silent treatment lasted through till Monday which was my birthday. There was no acknowledgment of my birthday until he got home from work that night and had bought me flowers and an expensive cake (he usually buys a cheap one). We had to sleep in the same bed at the holiday house. He came into bed and I woke up to his hand on my leg. I moved away and he tried again and he I moved away again. He then fell asleep.
The next incident happened on Saturday night. Once again I woke to him getting into the bed and his fingers were very close to my body. I jerked away and he tried again so I curled up in a ball and he fell asleep. He started snoring loudly so I went to the couch to sleep. When I woke up in the morning he had gone back to his bed.
I'm absolutely flabbergasted that he thinks after all these years and all his behaviour he can just hop into bed and try to be affectionate. I'm absolutely certain he was trying for sex and that appalls me. He obviously didn't sexually assault me but he definitely violated my boundaries.
I honestly don't get it. How can it not be obvious to him how physically and emotionally detached I am from him?
My head is spinning. I've just started seeing a counsellor in the hope I can find a way out of my marriage but due to complicating circumstances it's not going to be easy.
Am I overreacting? I've not shown any affection to him in years and can't remember the last time I told him I love him. How does he not get it?

[square]

He might be hoping to wear you down. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

[notrightinthehead]

Mine used to tell me that as a man he had sexual needs and I was supposed to satisfy them. It might be as simple as that in your case too. He had an urge and checked if you were willing to co-operate. Nothing romantic or affectionate, simple bodily needs. Fortunately he seems not to be pushy or try to manipulate you into co-operation.

[bloomie]

Beachlife - I am thankful you are getting support to find your way to a better living situation for yourself. Does your door lock? If so, use the lock. I am  sorry this is happening. Agree with square he may have been trying to wear you down or test the waters so to speak.

[Beachlife]

Thank you all for your replies.
I just don't understand after all this time how he cannot see there is a problem. It just infuriates me that, instead of talking to me about why we are no longer intimate and I prefer to sleep in separate rooms, he tries his luck in the middle of the night while I'm asleep. It just feels manipulative and bordering on creepy.

[square]

It's manipulative and creepy for sure.

He may just not care whether there is a problem, and perhaps just doesn't "waste" brain space wondering about it.

[Beachlife]

I am so tired of him refusing to see how I feel!!!

We haven't been intimate for over 3 years, I never touch him or tell him I love him, the two times recently he's tried to have sex I have rejected him and he still doesn't get it.

Tonight I was getting water from the fridge and he tickled me on my lower back as he walked past. I just ignored him. Seriously, I wish he would stop. How can he not see???

I know it's going to be up to me to find the courage and strength to leave and that just feels so overwhelming. Why can't he see that our marriage is done? How can he honestly want to keep living this way? I think of being in this same situation 10 years from now and it makes me feel so miserable. I need to get out, I just don't know how.

[notrightinthehead]

Beachlife, it sounds a bit like you expect him to draw the line and make a decision to end it.

[Beachlife]

Beachlife, it sounds a bit like you expect him to draw the line and make a decision to end it.

No, but I want him to acknowledge how unhealthy and toxic our marriage is instead of living with his head in the sand and pretending all is well. I want him to stop talking about the future as if we will be together forever. I want him to realise how withdrawn and distant I have become due to his behaviour instead of thinking that buying me flowers makes up for his tantrums & silent treatment & ruining my birthday.

I want him to realise the damage his behaviour and lack of accountability has done to me and our kids. I want him to see the way he speaks to me the same way my friend sees it (she told me he is condescending and speaks to me like I'm stupid). I want him to think about me and my feelings rather than tell me he would die alone if we separate.

[square]

I understand all of those wants.

Whether he chooses not to do those or is incapable of doing so due to a mental pathology, it may be easier for you to bear if you turn toward accepting that those realizations will not happen.

I went through a process by which I managed to mostly let go of the hope that my husband would see how bizarre his way of seeing certain things is. I do still sometimes get overcome by cognitive dissonance, and I find it very difficult to bear. But most of the time I find it easier to let the dissonance slip through the colander and just move on.

It's fundamental to my nature to try to make a framework of understanding things I encounter. It's not critical that my framework be proveably correct, but I need it to be a good possible explanation.

Were I in your situation, I would try to wrap my mind around the fact that not all minds exist in a rational world. That those with ASPD features do not have much theory of mind and sincerely do not have any understanding of how normal human beings think and feel, which is rational because they do not have normal thoughts and feelings to base those ideas on.

An person with ASPD traits may not have any thoughts whatsoever about what someone else is thinking and feeling, and their world may be entirely limited to observing whether they are getting what they want.

So, such a man may be emtirely content with having a wife, and having that wife perform whatever services he would like that wife to perform. To him, her happiness or sadness are of no relevance, the only concern is whether she is there right now. If he has no capacity to love, he thinks "having a wife" is the goal, and he is successful if he has acheived the "having," and her feelings are of no concern. He may see happy marriages but only see the "having" and not even perceive the love behind it, or assume that love is an act, as it would be for him.

Such a person is baffled by how normal people operate and find the idea of maintaining someone else's "feelings" to be bizarre and a waste of time. And even if they cared to try, they would fail because they don't understand those feelings at all, having little or no similar feelings of their own.

Three years of no sex may be unpreferable to him but clearly acceptable as long as you stay and he has a wife right now, whatever that might mean to him.

As an object in his life, your refusal may seem simply arbitrary to him. "Women, amirite?" So he may feel like if he keeps trying, he might get lucky. Who knows what might make a woman say yes? Maybe she'll finally be in a good mood one day, or maybe she gets horny twice a year, he might get lucky, right? If his brain is broken, he could not possibly understand.

Sorry for the novel, and I realize it may not be of any use whatsoever. I just do recognize this yearning for it to make sense. It doesn't make sense, but maybe it can help to grasp the pathology.

[jumpin]

have you ever told him your boundaries?

[Rebel13]

A long time ago, a difficult person who was definitely self absorbed said to me, "Anything but no means yes." I have never forgotten that, because it was such a foreign idea to me. But it was very clear that this person went through life doing and taking whatever they wanted, until someone explicitly told them "no."

Your husband might be like that, and you might have to bring out the big "no" of "I'm leaving" for him to understand. I hope you can find resources, help and support in doing what you need to do and creating the best life you can for yourself.

[sunshine702]

If he is a Cluster B I have had to wrap my head around the fact that "they love you like a toaster". When you want toast - or sex —- Hi.  They see you as an object that provides not as a person that wants to feel intimate and close and loved and safe to feel interested in sex.  This is such a painful realization trust me!! I am living it too

[Beachlife]

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice. Sorry it's taken awhile to respond.

have you ever told him your boundaries?

I've given up trying because he either just talks over me or blames me for his behaviour. He seems to think that buying me flowers or acting super helpful after a split until I thaw towards him is all that is required.

I've come to the realisation that I am his caregiver. I stopped being his wife a long time ago. As long as I am here to keep the household running and am there to look after his mental and emotional health, he doesn't care that our marriage is unhealthy and I am miserable. He relies on me so much and it's suffocating. He wouldn't even go to a quiz night with some friends on the weekend because I wasn't going! It makes me feel so trapped, knowing that he depends on me so much. How can I leave him when he is so dependent on me? It feels so controlling, him subtly making me feel responsible for his happiness and stability.

He also told me the other night that his relationship with our oldest child is 'f@cked' and he doesn't even bother trying with him anymore. Instead of looking at his own behaviour and what might be causing the issues he would rather bury his head in the sand and just ignore the problem and make things worse. Same with our relationship. It must be so obvious to him that I don't touch him, kiss him or want to be around him but he just buries that head in the sand. As long as he feels that I can't leave he is ok.

The other day he suggested we move to another city for a job for him. I felt so depressed, he won't even acknowledge how bad our marriage is and take any steps to improve it. Most men would have asked a long time ago what's going on and suggest ways to improve things but he is ok with living like this because he doesn't want to die alone'. He doesn't love me, he just wants to control me and make sure I don't leave.

[Rebel13]

I've come to the realisation that I am his caregiver. I stopped being his wife a long time ago. As long as I am here to keep the household running and am there to look after his mental and emotional health, he doesn't care that our marriage is unhealthy and I am miserable. He relies on me so much and it's suffocating.

The blogger ChumpLady calls this being "the spouse appliance."

How can I leave him when he is so dependent on me? It feels so controlling, him subtly making me feel responsible for his happiness and stability.

You can leave him when you start making your own life your priority and decide what matters to you. If the relationship isn't acceptable to you, for whatever reason, you can leave. He is a grown adult and can take care of himself -- or, more likely, as many self-absorbed people do, he'll find another appliance to take care of him in your absence.

[Beachlife]

Today he asked me if I was still planning to go to New York next year (I had planned to go there for my 50th but Covid). I said probably not because I don't have anyone to go with. He said he wants to go with me. I don't say anything and he asked if I wanted him to go. I said I don't think we can leave our son without one of us for that long (he's disabled) and left it at that.

He is so out of touch!!! Why would I want to go to on holiday with him when I barely speak to him, I don't want to sleep in the same room as him and I don't touch him? I barely even make eye contact with him these days.

How does he not get it??? He ruined my birthday in June with a tantrum and still thinks we are okay.

[notrightinthehead]

Could it be that you think you communicate clearly that you are no longer interested in him by the way you behave and he does not understand your communicative style? Could it be that he needs clear words - like in the NY example  something like "I have no interest in going anywhere with you."
However, your situation is complicated with a disabled child, you might be afraid that if he leaves you will be left alone with your son, and that forces you to be very careful how you proceed.

[Beachlife]

Could it be that you think you communicate clearly that you are no longer interested in him by the way you behave and he does not understand your communicative style? Could it be that he needs clear words - like in the NY example  something like "I have no interest in going anywhere with you."
However, your situation is complicated with a disabled child, you might be afraid that if he leaves you will be left alone with your son, and that forces you to be very careful how you proceed.

Yes possibly, but I would have thought that us not having sex in over 3 years and me rejecting the couple of times he tried recently would have been clear enough.

Our house has been modified for our child, which is the main reason I haven't left, as I don't think I could afford the house on my own and I can't take the kids and leave either.

It hurts that he is either oblivious to how his past behaviour has damaged me or he is so entitled that he thinks he can treat me however he wants and not face any consequences.

[Beachlife]

His last split in June was the Friday before my birthday on the Monday. Silent treatment right up until the Monday evening when he got home from work and bought me flowers and an expensive cake. I had to pretend I was ok because the kids were excited it was my birthday. No apology, just assumed all was ok because he bought flowers.

Instead of trying to talk about his behaviour and seeking help for it, he constantly puts me in an uncomfortable position where he acts like our marriage is fine and we have a future together. The trip to New York was actually a manipulation tactic - he realised I had been very distant to him since my birthday and out of the blue suggested I go to NY this year. Up until then, he constantly said 'we don't have the money for it now'.
Then suddenly he wanted me to go.

[Queenfrog]

Beachlife, your story feels so familiar. I have been frustrated in the same way. I just couldn't understand why my spouse seems to think our relationship is basically good enough to continue in the same way that it has. Part of me wants to urge you to be more direct and open with your spouse about your feelings, like in the NY trip situation. (I might or might not have finally exploded and yelled something like "how could you possibly think I want you to come along! I can't stand being with you!)

But you know what? It may not matter. Long story short, now that I have stuck around for 35 years, I'm pretty sure the only way he would finally understand - or care - that I find the situation intolerable is if I stop tolerating it and leave permanently. Until then, it's good enough for him.

I think you will be better off if you entirely stop thinking about what he feels or understands about your relationship. I agree with what others have said: It's best to accept that he'll never "get it" and his attitude will never make sense to you. Then you can better focus on the only things you can control: your own thoughts and actions.

Trying to get him to think or act in a certain way will only lead to more frustration. If you just need to get this all off your chest, for your own mental hygiene, maybe write him a letter that you don't deliver? I've been thinking about doing that . . . there's even a topic on this board for it.