The other side

[square]

I've avoided posting over this last week because I was just emotionally all over the place. I didn't know what I was feeling, or maybe I didn't want to face what I was feeling.

But I had a good day today, and more importantly it felt consistent today. I've certainly had good moments before but today was a good day.

Most importantly, DD is coming around. I had previously mentioned she said flatly that she was never coming to the apartment ever and thus I was abandoning her. And she would probably have to drop out of school.

She is still not totally happy but she has gotten invested in furnishing her room. The bed won't be set till Tuesday night so she has not slept here, but things are coming together. She spends plenty of time here now.

H has been a saint. Move day was very hard for him, including some real emotional frustrations (his autistic friend being very critical about some stuff, and he is very sensitive to criticism), and just plain exhausting (and he has some unknown neurological issue that has messed with his health).

He has done things to try to look out for me and take care of me, and it's been so long since I felt anything like that from him. But in the earlier days, he would do anything to help. Things got so distorted that I feel ashamed of even secretly wishing for any help, like that would make me a selfish and demanding person rather than it being a marriage of two people who support each other and fill in each others' gaps. Because even if I could use some help, I have a lot to give as well. And I can help him in the specific ways he needs. But it got totally one sided.

H has been admiring the new place and has confessed to being jealous. He helped me with a bunch of things today and I got him some food to thank him. I saw him more today than I have over several months combined.

I don't have plans right now to divorce. No, not planning to go back. But I'm perfectly fine for now to live on my own but still be connected to him and see him from time to time. He may decide to move on eventually and I would accept that but I just don't feel the need to break any further. Note that I've continued posting in Chosen Relationships rather than moving to Separating and Divorcing. Even though I have in fact separated.

I'mm still quite nervous about the finances, but will see how it goes. Unfortunately I'm spending a bit more on furnishings to make DD happy. No, not going crazy, but like I would be fine with an empty living room lol. I need very little. But DD does not want to live like spartans. So I'm coughing up for some things. We've scored a few things at an antique shop, including a solid wood desk for $10 (!!!!) that the manager offered to deliver for free (!!!!!!!!) and a couple of lamps, one brass and one an intricate standing lamp, for just a few dollars each. I refuse to buy anything upholstered used, so I'm going to shell out for a cheap sofa that I would not otherwise bother with. Hopefully I can keep in the budget I set for everything.

I'm also nervous about my mom's health. But part of my good day was, after she has an emergency stent placed on the day I moved, she come home and slept and woke up feeling better than she has in a while. So maybe the decline I was seeing lately might be put off for a bit longer. Fingers crosssssssssed.

It was a good day, maybe there will be setbacks, but that's what I have to report today.

[MaxedOut]

I have been thinking about you Square and glad to hear things are going relatively well for you. It sounds like things with DD and H are on the "better case" side of the possibilities for what you were thinking through around the time you left.

The positive turn with your daughter makes me think of something I keep reminding myself during the separating and as stuff has flared up with my spouse. "Yes, this could go quite bad or be a full split, which you have faced and sat with as a possibility intentionally. However, you also know from years of experience that little periods of dysregulation often smooth by the next day and bigger ones often take about three days (or if part of a major crisis cycle 2-3 weeks. And you know how to withstand that and keep perspective."

[winterstorm]

Thank you for posting an update, Square. I have been thinking of you and hoping that things were going well  "enough".  I can't do your post full justice at the moment, but my heart is with you.

[phlox]

Square, I'm so happy to hear this! I've been away from the forum for a while and didn't know you had starting living separately (now I do, I've read back a bit). You've been such a kind voice or support to me when I post and I wanted the chance to return the support.

Congrats to you - I hope as you settle in, you find your separation is a tolerable balance of peace and that it minimizes your stress. My separation has given me back my sense of self and the strength to manage the more traumatic (but less frequent!) episodes in my interactions with my PDh.

Every change has its setbacks but I'm confident that you will emerge into a better place for this change. Here's to forging a new path for yourself and your peace of mind.

[treesgrowslowly]

Cheering for your Square!

Trees

[IsleOfSong]

Wow, I'm so happy for you, square! You are a role model for folks like me who can't seem to pull the trigger and get out. I'd give anything to have my own place, even one with only "spartan" decor.

Keep posting, and keep moving forward!

[SonofThunder]

Cheering for your Square!

Trees

  Keep pressing forward comrade!

SoT

[square]

MaxedOut, I would say on thevH side things went as ideally as even the most amicable separations in the world. I wonder if part of him might be happy with it.

As for DD, it's maybe a little worse than I hoped, but not terrible.

Thanks winterstorm, phlox, trees.

Isle of Song, I'm not sure I've really even grasped that I did it. Certainly remember feeling gobsmacked by every post that announced they left a bad situation. It seemed impossible in every way, for me with a disability and low income and also just emotionally. Nobody expects to divorce, but yeah, I never expected to, never wanted to. (And as I said above, I'm waiting on that part anyway). I've been here for yeeeeears. And yeah, I hear you on wanting your own place. I'm living the dream right now, not sure I believe it.

For me it was a confluence of being more done than terrified of leaving. It took a long time to get there. And a bit longer still for it to be possible in a practical sense. And I kind of just went on a bit of autopilot. I applied for housing, but that wasn't a commitment. My name came up and I kind of just let the process coast along and just never really pulled the plug on it.

Thank you, SoT.

DD had a bad couple of days, coming to a head yesterday in a pretty big blowup. Again saying she'll never ever be comfortable, that I abandoned her, etc. I felt pretty emotional and cried, I haaaate crying ugh. Not sure if I've cried with DD before. But she did come around again. I don't know how to take her strong statements in terms of whether they are 100% true (that she is not having any comfort at all and such) or if they sometimes/often feel true but sometimes fade a bit. Because I see her coming over here a lot and enjoying her new easy chair and bringing crochet projects and taking on the job of dusting the books and organizing the bookshelves and so on. We do laugh and listen to music and make plans. One thing she has mentioned for a long time is wanting to play more board games, and we did tonight.

So after all this time H is now a source of emotional support (??) and has been trying to help DD adjust and telling me he thinks I'm doing ok and she will get used to it.

She hasn't slept here yet, and that might take a long time or maybe never, idk.

[winterstorm]

Hi Square,
What you write about your DD :

My initial response is it's how she is feeling in that moment, major shifts happening and it's frightening and stirs up a lot of emotions. I hope it fades, and you are seeing positive things happening in that regard also. I think it's okay, maybe even great, that you showed your emotion in that moment. It was an emotional dialogue, painful, but true.

Not sure what to think about H's response. things could shift there too, but for now, support is coming your way, and joint concern for DD.
I am glad you feel it was right , the evolution of things.

I've not shared my story of breakup with my previous partner....but I can say that my emotions were all over the map too, and he was not accommodating, and I felt loneliness, and aloneness on a twilight zone level. (I was out of the frying pan, not sure about the fire...  

H has concern for both of you, it seems, and I am so grateful that that exists for you. Seems like a gift when needed.

[bloomie]

square - reading through your update and am just so grateful you are in your own space. I can only imagine the waves of emotions and think it is important and ever so brave to have let your DD see a glimpse of the depths of yours in all of this. Here with you as you continue forward on your quest!

[notrightinthehead]

Square, seems like you have been listening to a lot of DD's feelings about the change. How about you share your feelings with DD? That there would be nothing left of you soon, had you stayed? That you felt so lonely, desperate, not valued and it made you so sad, that in order to save yourself you had to take this step? That it would make you happy, if she could be happy for you, even if she does not approve of your decision? A true friend, someone who truly loves you would not ask of you to stay in a position where you are so miserable. A true friend would spur you on to do something beneficial for yourself.

[Rebel13]

So glad you're keeping on, keeping on, even on the hard days. It's so true that sometimes the things we worry about never happen, and completely unexpected troubles crop up. It sounds like you are doing great coping with the next thing and letting the future take care of itself for today. Wishing you the best!

[square]

Square, seems like you have been listening to a lot of DD's feelings about the change. How about you share your feelings with DD? That there would be nothing left of you soon, had you stayed? That you felt so lonely, desperate, not valued and it made you so sad, that in order to save yourself you had to take this step? That it would make you happy, if she could be happy for you, even if she does not approve of your decision? A true friend, someone who truly loves you would not ask of you to stay in a position where you are so miserable. A true friend would spur you on to do something beneficial for yourself.

Thanks, NRITH.

I did say very broadly that I in fact stayed much longer than the "I can't take it anymore" point.

DD was in a triggered state and was not interested in my perspective at the time, but she did not deny my experience. And maybe she filed it away even if she was not ready to cede any ground at the time.

She's not my friend, though, she's my kid. And she may be a legal adult but she is not quite a full adult yet (even, or especially, by her own measure). So I don't expect this to be an equal partnership; I accept that my decisions have had a major impact on her, she had no say in it, and is having to cope with the added impact of autism and anxiety on an already big event.

She has seemed better again, though. We had Thanksgiving, with H. I made sure to do everything she has expressed wanting for years - playing more board games (difficult before due to H's clutter and lack of good space), decorations (hard to bother before with the house a wreck, but today I had a lovely space), and maintained the other previous traditions (very very important).




Separately, on H.

I've mentioned that it seems clear to me now that he must not have a PD. A PD person could not be handling all this like H is.

Not to say I think he's magically fine now. He does have a mental/neurological issue, and it makes things bery frustrating for him. And he apparently believes that it's ok to take out his feelings on me in toxic ways that mirror a lot of PD tactics - DARVO, circular conversations, etc.

I think there was a particular turning point when I said I was leaving. He said something about me "wanting" to leave. I said that I actually wanted to spend my life with him - but I couldn't anymore.

I think it was a sort of revelation to him. I'm not sure exactly his thinking but maybe he thought I had turned away from him years ago and he was punishing me for it. And I think he was struck by regret knowing that I wanted to stay with him except he made it so I couldn't.

A few days ago, he came to help me with my wifi. When he arrived, he was clearly in a bad mood (didn't talk to me at all) so I left him alone. But then made the mistake at some point of telling him I already had the setup app installed on my phone if he wanted to use it. He shouted that everyone should leave him alone. I just went into the other room with no comment or reaction - just more of the same, you know?

A minute later, he came out to apologize (effort appreciated but it's not enough) and said several times "I clearly have personality problems."

I don't know what he meant by that. Maybe not too much. But many years ago he told me on two different occasions, in a state of vulnerability, that he thought he might be a narcissist. I can tell you he doesn't have NPD, and apparently no PD at all, but it does make me wonder what he thinks or sees.

[square]

I moved out two months ago.

DD has adjusted, though she'll still remind me that she doesn't live here and doesn't like it. I take her words seriously, but if I were to look past them I would assume she has a new normal which has some drawbacks and some plusses. If I asked, she would no doubt emphatically correct me, but I suspect she would be disappointed to lose this space.

She spends her days with me, and sleeps at the house. This works well because she spends the same amount of time with each of her parents as she always did. Usually splitting time between parents involves time reduction, but her time with her parents hasn't overlapped for many years.

I see H about as often as I did before I moved out, which is to say for about 5-15 minutes a week when I'm at the house doing DD's laundry (YES she should do her own but it was part of the deal that she would deal with me movng out if I did her laundry - you know, like blackmail). Sometimes H is nicer than he used to be, and sometimes he ignores me. He has only snapped at me once since I moved out, and I didn't consider it a big deal.

I marvel every day - every minute - how easy it is to keep the space nice. I could honestly write a book on the hundreds of tiny ways H's disorder made everything 100 times harder. In many ways he is blind to the disorder but I've discovered he is not entirely so. It turns out that he does actually value a clean and clear space, but struggles with his awareness. He expressed real respect and envy for my space, comments multiple times on how much he likes it, and has been super respectful the few times he has been here (putting his dishes straight into the dishwasher, for example).

For me, I was expecting to deal with a mountain of sadness and rage, but it feels like the show was cancelled and no explanation was given. I was feeling a lot to gear up and gain courage to leave. Doing it was really scary for me on a number of levels. I couldn't do it feeling placid. But H unexpectedly accepted it and now I don't know if those dark memories and feelings will just sort of rot away where they are or if I'll still have to deal with them at some point.

I don't have to hide from H till he goes to work. I don't have to wonder what mood he is in today. I don't fear going to the house. I don't love being ignored when he does that but I don't really care.

I do think about him a lot, still trying to figure out what happened, what went wrong. I try not to, but it's there. I don't regret leaving at all, and I don't miss the H of the past few years, but I still really miss the H of 10+ years ago, even though he had his issues then too. But the good times used to outweigh the bad, and it used to be that he really wanted to spend time with me and was happy to do his part for the family.

Financially, I think I'm going to survive except for two worries. One is DD's car, which she loves, but is leaking oil, leaking coolant, and has some fuel/air mixture code on the check engine light. I can't afford a car payment (I bought this one with cash, so no payment now). I'm actually having nightmares about it. And DD's college is a 45 minute drive each way.

The other issue is that I'm still a little bit tied to H financially. I need him to make the mortgage payments and last month had to nag him to pay it. We can't remortgage because he would not come close to qualifying. Plus the rate is great, and fixed. Just four years, H, just buckle down and cross the finish line, dammit.

But also, I have to grow a spine. I keep wanting to help him out but I can't blow my very limited resources. He needs to amass some savings so he can weather a house repair or car repair. Plus his car is aging too, though it's reliable. But he can't afford a car payment either, and has no plans to reduce spending or increase income. To be fair, he is not a high spender, but his income is very low. So he needs to either earn more or really knuckle down where he can. And to be fair, he is genuinely limited in his earning capabilities due to his neurological difficulties.

So anyway, I have to find the right approach to let him be responsible for himself. It's hard because we split the savings unequally in my favor (he insisted and I relented because I both created far more if those savings and used far less of them). But if he gets hits with a big expense it will honestly be very hard for me to just sit back and watch. But I also need these savings and am saddled with an ornery car that DD loves instead of the solid boring one I would have picked. (One of the projects on my list is studying car repair, not that I can physically do it but just so I can troubleshoot a little and work with the mexhanic, such as knowing the specific foibles and best practices with this model.)

[notrightinthehead]

All in all this is a good update. It makes me happy to read that you are doing well. You are settling into the single life and you feel ok. Maybe even comfortable sometimes.

You have worries still, but these seem more "normal" worries than before. And you have a rational, practical approach to them. Maybe some brilliant car mechanic will come out of nowhere miraculously? Keeping my fingers crossed.
 

[MaxedOut]

Thank you for posting and update, Square. I am with you on how much easier it is to keep things clean and tidy. I do wonder whether my STBXW still just tosses trash, cans, and things on the living room floor and leaves stuff out and everywhere, especially kitchen counters and floors

I feel you on missing/grieving the person they used to be and times from then (for myself and for them, in my case). I am glad you are not on the receiving a lot of sadness and rage from H (it is tough).

It sounds like a good arrangement with and for DD. I hope the car issues are manageable logistically and financially. That is great that there are just four years left on the mortgage. If a major expertness does come up, he may be able to qualify for a HELOC. As you mention, navigating those financial ties and outcomes is tricky and full of trade offs. And the mind shift of being primarily financially responsible for one's self, then children instead of carrying it for another adult is a process.

[SonofThunder]

Well done Square!  What an excellent and realistic update about the joyful yet interesting mix of the emotional, financial and situational push/pull in your physical separation to protect yourself. 

SoT

[square]

All in all this is a good update. It makes me happy to read that you are doing well. You are settling into the single life and you feel ok. Maybe even comfortable sometimes.

You have worries still, but these seem more "normal" worries than before. And you have a rational, practical approach to them. Maybe some brilliant car mechanic will come out of nowhere miraculously? Keeping my fingers crossed.
 

Thanks!

Financial worries are normal but this is the fallout of being tied to a disordered person. I have less money now than I did when I met H in college, not adjusted for inflation. For 25 years I did everything I could to prepare for my disability forcing me out of the workforce. I worked hard, went without, lived frugally. It was all FOR NOTHING. There was a hole in the lifeboat and instead of helping me bail, he sank his side and fell asleep. Knowing that my ability to bail was going to stop due to disability.

I guess I should remember that next time I see him sinking.

[square]

Thank you for posting and update, Square. I am with you on how much easier it is to keep things clean and tidy. I do wonder whether my STBXW still just tosses trash, cans, and things on the living room floor and leaves stuff out and everywhere, especially kitchen counters and floors

Let's have a beer and talk about this because GAH. My H thankfully doesn't toss trash on the floor but he certainly just leaves it wherever. Everything just gets abandoned.

A long time ago, when I was expressing a wish to have more order in the house, he said "people who have clean houses get up at 6am and clean nonstop until they go to bed. I don't want to live like that." I was utterly baffled at the time, couldn't even put my finger on the fallacy. But the fallacy is that he does not see the mess as something created by him but something that just happens. So you have to get up at dawn because the mess accumulates on its own and you have to fight it. Not that HE left all this crap sitting there.

I feel you on missing/grieving the person they used to be and times from then (for myself and for them, in my case). I am glad you are not on the receiving a lot of sadness and rage from H (it is tough).

Yeah, I'm sorry, I know you're getting it hard.

[square]

Well done Square!  What an excellent and realistic update about the joyful yet interesting mix of the emotional, financial and situational push/pull in your physical separation to protect yourself. 

SoT

Thank you.