Need advice-dating again and the guy is triggering me

[mary_poppins]

Hi all.

I started dating a guy who I knew from a cafe we both frequented (went there at least 4 days a week). We knew each other from a few years back but never thought of becoming anything serious. He recently took action and asked me out through a friend (he didn't have the courage to ask me himself) and we have been dating for two days.

Now, he is very polite and generous. He paid for all my meals and drinks, he took me to great places, even opened the car door for me. Such a gentleman. He also is funny and tries to make me feel good.

However, there is a big but. He has said some things that triggered me. Made me feel unsafe.

I opened up about my PD parents and he didn't seem to understand why a parent could want to harm their child. He has a child and he can't imagine ever hurting her so he's not familiar with narcissism at all.

Also, he urged me to get over my past with my parents/childhood and just forget about it. He said the past should stay buried and I should just forgive the abuse. That was so triggering to me that when I got home I started crying.

I told him in a message that he was wrong for saying that to me and he said that's what he believes and I could agree with him or not.
Anyway, there were other signs that made me feel unsafe: he overshared like crazy during our date. He opened up about his suicide attempt. He told me all the ways he tried to off himself and it was traumatizing to hear that. I was shocked (and still am) that he told me how he planned his 'last day'-i never want to hear this from people. At least, tell people who are close to u not those you've just met.
(I didn't know you CAN be traumatized when listening to someone else's trauma)

And he kept telling me about his exes-he was all about his exes, how they met, how the relationship was, how they broke up and so on. He gave details and I felt uncomfortable. Worse, he took me to an ex who owns a coffee shop so we could have coffee. That ex had a blank look on her face when she saw him and I thought that was weird. Anyway, we stayed there and talked but he seemed like he wanted to show he could still be friends with an ex and that during the relationship he was a great guy. (otherwise, the ex wouldn't stay friends with him) It was not very nice. To this day, he keeps talking about her, although he didn't love her.

Other uncomfortable thing is that he makes plans for me without asking my opinion. He says 'I'm gonna pick you up in the morning, let;s start the day early tomorrow' or 'We're going to this location, you'll like it.' Coming from an abusive family makes one very vulnerable to people who 'decide things for them'. I hate when things are decided 4 me and I have NOTHING to say in the matter. Why is he thinking my opinion, likes or dislikes are not important? Does he believe he thinks he knows better because he's much older than me and knows the city well? I don't understand.

Anyway, I want to continue seeing him but there are so many red flags that I don't know what to do. I rarely meet interesting and attractive men and he's the only one I met who I like and feel attracted to.

But maybe I haven't looked hard enough for potential dates? Idk. Dating is very hard especially when you have c-PTSD and get constantly triggered by people or are socially anxious.

If this story brings up thoughts or ideas in you, pls let me know about it. I need people (from PD families) to validate how I feel.

Thx for listening.

[moglow]

Two days. There's a whole lotta lotta going on that likely shouldn't be just yet.  I'm not telling them all about mommie dearest and her stuff, and I'm not interested in talking about any ex, theirs or mine. He's not "wrong" for saying what he thinks about a situation he knows little about - he's just not in position to be giving any opinion about something so deeply personal.

You barely know this guy, and yet sounds like you're both putting your whole lives out there, just add water and stir up an instant relationship. For me, several "dates" in the course of a few days would be too much, never mind the weighty subjects and conversations about exes. He tells you he's going to pick you up ... Mighty presumptive to assume a] you don't already have plans or b[ that he knows what you'll like or not. But you have to speak up. Why not tell him no, you already have plans for that day/evening AND you don't have to elaborate, it's just not available for you. If he gets huffy or all offended, he just does. That's something you need to know.

Maybe you could slow down, take your time and see what happens. Just because he's attractive doesn't mean he's "the one" and you can't force something regardless.

[walking on broken glass]

Please don't ignore the red flags! He does not sound like an emotionally mature, nice guy at all.

In general, I am very suspicious of men who make a show of holding doors open and paying for everything, because they tend to be sexist and treat women as objects. And this guy's behaviour confirms this view. For instance, think of the directive tone he has when planning things for you. Plus, the constant talk about his exes. And as you remarked, he got way too personal way too soon. Most importantly, he gave advice about a personal matter he knew nothing about, and when you pointed out he was off, he did not have the sensitivity or sensibility to retract his comment and apologise, or at least to say 'sorry, it was not my business to say that'. He completely disregarded your feelings and insisted on his view.

All very bad signs 🚩

[Breadroll]

Old therapy advice I once had, might help - If you were advising a friend who  told you this, how would you advise them?

It's so nice to have a date, it's  hard to back off, as you feel you have given encouraging signs- but you absolutely have the right to slow down, back off, change your mind.  Maybe be busy with something else in life ( you could be vague) and have some breathing space.

Stay safe, listen to your body

[DaisyGirl77]

I don't mean to sound alarmist, but I am very concerned.  He's displaying unsafe behaviors, & you're right to question them.  However, you seem to want to dismiss your concerns despite being concerned, which is a concern.

Don't do that.

1.  He dismissed your experiences with your parents & told you, in essence, to "get over it" & get back in touch with your parents/abusers.  In your own words, he specifically said you need to "bury the past".  That's dangerous.

2.  When you told him he was wrong for saying that, he dismissed & invalidated you ("That's what I believe.").  Well, when does what YOU believe come into play?

3.  He's gone too much, too deep, too fast.  He's overshared about his suicide attempts & gone into detail about each one, traumatizing you.  (Yes, you can be traumatized by other people's trauma, btw; this is a known issue, particularly in the mental health field, & is why many practicing therapists have their own therapists--they need to process their responses to their patients' traumas.)

4.  He's gone into great detail about each of his exes & why they broke up.  He's even taken you to one of his ex's coffee places.  She clearly was uncomfortable ("blank look on her face"), which has me concerned that he ignores boundaries.  At the very least, he doesn't care.  He isn't friends with any of these people if he purposefully brings his newest item to a former ex's shop--that indicates manipulation ("Look at my newest arm candy!  She's better than you.  See?  I'm over you.  SO OVER YOU that I've decided to bring my new romance to YOUR SHOP to prove just how over you I am!  HA HA!")  He then decided to make the point to STAY at the shop with you to...what, prove he no longer has a thing for her?  If he doesn't, why go to this woman's place SPECIFICALLY?  Why is he still talking about her while simultaneously claiming he's not hung up on her?  (News flash:  He is.  If he was over her, he wouldn't be still talking to you about her.)

This worries me as it indicates he becomes obsessed over people, & you potentially wouldn't be safe in this relationship if you were to continue.  (This gives me controlling abuser vibes, frankly.)

In 2 days of dating, where you should be getting to know each other (favorite colors, foods, movies, books, etc.) & keeping things light & fun, you two have, instead, gotten extremely intense.  If I'm remembering right, the term is love-bombing, just a different form.  (It's also 6:30ish where I'm at & I've just woken up so someone correct me if I've got the wrong word.)  You're right to be concerned.  There are red flags waving everywhere.  Like I said, this is all too fast, too much, & too deep for a two-day dating span.

In case you haven't heard this right:  TWO DAYS.

Lol.

You need to pump the brakes.  If you decide to give this one more shot, in your shoes, I would have a serious conversation with this guy & say that it's all too much for you & you need to slow down.  That you want to do dinner, a movie, mini golf, explore a bookshop you've been meaning to check out, anything other than this heavy stuff.  Again:  He's overwhelming you.  You're questioning yourself.  He knows your past history with abuse & he's showing signs of being yet another person in a string of abusers you've had.  He's just a different flavor.  He's not reassuring you, or showing you he can be trusted.  He's demonstrating behaviors that are not safe.

If you decide to end things, I'd change up your routine for a few months.  (This honestly may be an overreaction on my part, but this guy gives me dangerous stalker vibes & I get scared over people who go hot & heavy, intense, with the intention to overwhelm me so I don't stop & think & instead ignore all the red flags.)

Listen to your inner alarm bells.  They're engaging for a reason.

Good luck, & stay safe.

[walking on broken glass]

 

All of that!

[moglow]

If nothing else it was rude and incredibly disrespectful not just taking you to a business his ex owns, but to hang out there. Making a point to nod, catch her eye, hey lookee here, here I am again with someone else. Respect would have been, hey let's go somewhere neither of us have been. Not making an issue of it. Being vague and "I'd just rather try another place with you." Sharing *your* experience, not theirs. 

While I wouldn't likely bring up a whole discussion about my concerns at this point, I'd likely address them as they came up and redirect the conversation accordingly. Let him know (this subject) uncomfortable right now and move on to something else. He insists and possibly belittles your feelings in the process? Disrespect. He may not have a clue and truly doesn't understand your family situation (many people don't), may have thrown out platitudes thinking to lighten the subject (I've gotten that before too). "Well that's how I feel and what I think" is off-putting, to put it mildly. Disrespect.

This early, none of your concerns should be there screaming at you and making you cry. That's the problem for me. Way too intense emotions way too fast. Too much intimate sharing before you even know if you like each other. 

Think about what attracted you to him. Go back there if you can/if you want to. Take a large step back if you need to. There's no shame and no insult in reevaluating.

[mary_poppins]

Thank you, guys to each of you for your input.
Update: he messed up today because he insisted on meeting me. I told him in the early morning that I am busy and that's just that. He called me a few times to urge me to meet him (change my mind) and tried to convince me that my plans are not important. I was very angry and told him off. He got hurt when I put a boundary and that's when I realized he's not safe at all and quite frankly, very annoying. He acted like a child on the phone and I'm done with this type of behavior.

The problem with both his exes (he has an ex wife whom he has a kid with) is so off putting that is a major dealbreaker for me. I never keep in touch with exes and the last one I had to block because I had too many feelings and conflicting emotions about. You guys are right that he may still be hung up on the ex (she's a nice woman and he kept praising how lovely she is during our date) and bringing me to her shop is a way of rubbing the break up in her face.

@Daisygirl77

You're correct, he has stalker vibes and may be a stalker, too. He actually confessed to me that he saw me around the city and he wanted to talk to me but couldn't (i hate that!). He also confessed that he liked me since he saw me in that coffee shop 2 years ago but didn't know how to get in touch.

Having said all that,
I wouldn't have continued this relationship even if he was a nice guy. After talking for a while I realized we have nothing in common. He has no hobbies and no passions in his life. I'm bored. Even Brad Pitt would be a terrible match if he was without hobbies and boring as hell.

[GoodPesto]

Hey Mary Poppins,

I read your post from two days ago and was happy to read the numerous responses that were mirroring the red flags.
It's difficult to date when having suffered from absuse because you might feel attracted to pretty bad behaviour. Many absused people still try as adults to make relationships with not-so-nice people work, because that's what has been imprinted when they were young.
There are two things I'd like to add.
First: If someone you've basically just met or began to talk to makes you cry like you experienced it, I think it is a solid clue for where this is heading if continued.
Second: I think you saved yourself from pain and trouble by stopping this ... You can be proud of yourself.

[walking on broken glass]

He acted like a child on the phone and I'm done with this type of behavior.

Well done on listening to your concerns. I hope he doesn't bother you further.

[1footouttadefog]

So very glad to read the update. 

Wanted to pile on however; He was rubbing it in the ex's face and is so not over her.  It's hard enough to have a partners attention, but sharing it with an ex would be a deal breaker. 

I don't see love bombing here but rather enmeshment.  To much entanglement too fast.

Most folks don't share traumatic things with strangers.  Someone on a second date is still a stranger, regardless of physical intimacy or not.  Two dates, three dates four, five...still a stranger.  It takes time to build trust and understanding.  Enmeshment can seem like a substitute for time in this regard and bring about a false sense of knowing and being known.  In reality you know info, not personality and character traits etc. 

Two men could have been married three times. That is information.  That one cheated on all three is info that might indicate character.  That the other was divorced against his will by a cheater then had two shorter marriages to women who died, one from ALS and the other when a drunk driver hit her car might indicate another character. 

Work history, world view, manners, ethics, culture, preferences, so much to know and it all takes time. 

If it were me I would sit and meditate on the attraction part.  This has been important for me in understanding myself.  I don't mean the physical type, that is easy enough.  I mean what about him beyond the looks made you feel certain ways.  Rethink your thoughts.  How much did you project on to him?  Did you imagine things that were positive or exciting only to find they were not true?  If so really digest those. 

It's common for victims of PDs to create false ideals or hopes about someone.  That narcs and PDs present false personas does not help.  We can however learn a lot about ourselves by examining what draws us in.

I don't date but still encounter this with friendships and acquaintances.  The being drawn in.  I still feel it but step back and realize it's a danger warning even if it feels good in a way.  I think of it as a tractor beam bringing me close to kryptonite.  It's all pretty and glowy green and sparkly and I want a closer look but very bad for me.   

[mary_poppins]

Update:

I gave him another chance but he messed it up. He had to meet his friends during the weekend for fishing but then I saw him in the city with his EX-WIFE hanging out as if they're old buddies. I asked him why was he out with her and he said they needed to talk about their child and buy medicine for her (can ONE person buy her the meds? why do they have to do it together?) That's when I realized he is a big fat lier who is probably still with his wife and may be hung up on her or the ex he showed me during our date.

He didn't like the fact that I called him out and told him that I saw him with the ex.
He called me today and asked me out; he invited me to HIS place and I told him I'm not okay with it. I said to meet in a park or something. He didn't want that. Then I said he's a very frustrating guy. He hung up on me and then I blocked him.

I can actually take this experience as a practice in boundaries. I kept my boundaries up and refused to play his games. Imagine if I got involved with him and the ex-wife was still in the picture. There would have been a lot of drama. He probably has no respect for the ex-wife as well since he told me INTIMATE things about her. Jesus. What a guy 

Glad it's over.

You, guys helped a lot. 

[mary_poppins]

So very glad to read the update. 

Wanted to pile on however; He was rubbing it in the ex's face and is so not over her.  It's hard enough to have a partners attention, but sharing it with an ex would be a deal breaker. 

I don't see love bombing here but rather enmeshment.  To much entanglement too fast.

Most folks don't share traumatic things with strangers.  Someone on a second date is still a stranger, regardless of physical intimacy or not.  Two dates, three dates four, five...still a stranger.  It takes time to build trust and understanding.  Enmeshment can seem like a substitute for time in this regard and bring about a false sense of knowing and being known.  In reality you know info, not personality and character traits etc. 

Two men could have been married three times. That is information.  That one cheated on all three is info that might indicate character.  That the other was divorced against his will by a cheater then had two shorter marriages to women who died, one from ALS and the other when a drunk driver hit her car might indicate another character. 

Work history, world view, manners, ethics, culture, preferences, so much to know and it all takes time. 

If it were me I would sit and meditate on the attraction part.  This has been important for me in understanding myself.  I don't mean the physical type, that is easy enough.  I mean what about him beyond the looks made you feel certain ways.  Rethink your thoughts.  How much did you project on to him?  Did you imagine things that were positive or exciting only to find they were not true?  If so really digest those. 

It's common for victims of PDs to create false ideals or hopes about someone.  That narcs and PDs present false personas does not help.  We can however learn a lot about ourselves by examining what draws us in.

I don't date but still encounter this with friendships and acquaintances.  The being drawn in.  I still feel it but step back and realize it's a danger warning even if it feels good in a way.  I think of it as a tractor beam bringing me close to kryptonite.  It's all pretty and glowy green and sparkly and I want a closer look but very bad for me.   

Hi and thanks for your input.

it's a very good question-what attracted me to him?
And yes, it was an idea. I think it is called 'limerence'. He was the limerent object that took on some pretty great qualities. He paid attention to me, listened to me and was very generous. These are qualities I find appealing. I think because he chased me-the thrill was exciting (he knew me years ago when I started hanging out at the cafe where he was hanging out) and so I gave in to the thrill. If you know what I mean.
I will do more work on the issue of being in love with the idea of someone (not the real person).

Btw, do you think it's possible to meet someone who has those qualities-who chases you, is generous and gives you a great amount of attention and who is, at the same time, healthy, confident, and normal? Not PD or anything.

[TimetoHeal]

Mary,

I am so glad you decided to end this relationship after seeing all these red flags. My advice was going to be one word:  run.

Every guy I ever dated who started out talking about his ex's was BIG BAD NEWS. 

Just run.  Block him.  Don't look back.  You dodged a bullet. 

[walking on broken glass]

Btw, do you think it's possible to meet someone who has those qualities-who chases you, is generous and gives you a great amount of attention and who is, at the same time, healthy, confident, and normal? Not PD or anything.

I remember how bad the dating pool was when I was dating so I won't say that there are many people out there who are like that, but there definitely are some needles in the haystack. There is a fb group actually called 'the burned haystack method', and the founder (a university lecturer) gives solid advice about how to avoid men's dating profiles that give off sinister vibes. If you are into online dating, have a look!

[TimetoHeal]

Btw, do you think it's possible to meet someone who has those qualities-who chases you, is generous and gives you a great amount of attention and who is, at the same time, healthy, confident, and normal? Not PD or anything.

I remember how bad the dating pool was when I was dating so I won't say that there are many people out there who are like that, but there definitely are some needles in the haystack. There is a fb group actually called 'the burned haystack method', and the founder (a university lecturer) gives solid advice about how to avoid men's dating profiles that give off sinister vibes. If you are into online dating, have a look!

Omg, the dating pool at my age is full of pee pee, so I don't even go into it any more.  LOL

MaryPoppins,

I would be wary of anyone who swoops in an "chases you", spends a lot of money on you, and wants to spend every waking minute with you to start out with.  I have learned to see that as love bombing.  Surely, they need to give you a good amount of attention and show interest.  But it needs to be appropriate to the amount of time they've known you and you them.  Too much too soon is never a good thing.  A great book I read after my last dating fiasco was Loving Him Without Losing You by Beverly Engle.  She gives advice for people like me who tend to dive in head first into relationships.  She says you must almost force yourself to go slowly and not share too much information at once.  Sharing too much too soon can make you very vulnerable, as it seems to have happened in this instance when you shared about your family and where he then had the opportunity to say he didn't believe you and you should "get over it", which hurt you. She also suggests each paying your own way to start out with.  I don't know if this resonates with you or not, but it was a very eye-opening read to me. 

[walking on broken glass]

I would be wary of anyone who swoops in an "chases you", spends a lot of money on you, and wants to spend every waking minute with you to start out with.  I have learned to see that as love bombing.

Fully agree with that!

[JustKeepTrying]

Mary_poppins

Wow, all of the advice is so spot on. It is encouraging to see the community rally around you.

I wanted to say good on you for getting out there and taking a risk. It is so hard and your are right - triggering. You set boundaries; reached for support; worked for answers and listened to yourself. Just so impressive. I am sorry it didn't work out but frankly, you got so much out of the experience even if it was bad in the end. Just so incredibly inspiring!

[mary_poppins]

Btw, do you think it's possible to meet someone who has those qualities-who chases you, is generous and gives you a great amount of attention and who is, at the same time, healthy, confident, and normal? Not PD or anything.

I remember how bad the dating pool was when I was dating so I won't say that there are many people out there who are like that, but there definitely are some needles in the haystack. There is a fb group actually called 'the burned haystack method', and the founder (a university lecturer) gives solid advice about how to avoid men's dating profiles that give off sinister vibes. If you are into online dating, have a look!

Thanks so much for the advice about the group. I'll look for it.

[mary_poppins]

Btw, do you think it's possible to meet someone who has those qualities-who chases you, is generous and gives you a great amount of attention and who is, at the same time, healthy, confident, and normal? Not PD or anything.

I remember how bad the dating pool was when I was dating so I won't say that there are many people out there who are like that, but there definitely are some needles in the haystack. There is a fb group actually called 'the burned haystack method', and the founder (a university lecturer) gives solid advice about how to avoid men's dating profiles that give off sinister vibes. If you are into online dating, have a look!

Omg, the dating pool at my age is full of pee pee, so I don't even go into it any more.  LOL

MaryPoppins,

I would be wary of anyone who swoops in an "chases you", spends a lot of money on you, and wants to spend every waking minute with you to start out with.  I have learned to see that as love bombing.  Surely, they need to give you a good amount of attention and show interest.  But it needs to be appropriate to the amount of time they've known you and you them.  Too much too soon is never a good thing.  A great book I read after my last dating fiasco was Loving Him Without Losing You by Beverly Engle.  She gives advice for people like me who tend to dive in head first into relationships.  She says you must almost force yourself to go slowly and not share too much information at once.  Sharing too much too soon can make you very vulnerable, as it seems to have happened in this instance when you shared about your family and where he then had the opportunity to say he didn't believe you and you should "get over it", which hurt you. She also suggests each paying your own way to start out with.  I don't know if this resonates with you or not, but it was a very eye-opening read to me. 

Those are great tips. I'll look for the book. Yeah, sharing too much has hurt me. But it felt like he forced me to share because he overshared about his exes and his mental health problems. He had this power to convince me to open up and that it's ok to do so. Now i see he may even be a narcissist due to his covert manipulations.