Oh No, Divorce is an issue

[Deby64]

I'm so disappointed. We went to the lawyers office today to start out divorce proceedings. The attorney said what I was wanting to do give him the house but still pay for it would not be approved by the judge. Some of the thing said unsettled my UPD-H and he reared his ulgy head. The attorney was able to see why I sat so quietly interjected very minimally as he blamed me for evvvvvery thing. He became rageful on the ride home I was able to MC and diffuse the heat some. He said the ball is in your court. "If you will just admit how horrible you have been to me an be submissive, this marriage will work" My response was do you want to call another lawyer and go alone to pled your case to see if we can get a different outcome. The coercive control is another beast   

[Poison Ivy]

Where I live, both spouses having the same lawyer in a divorce is highly discouraged. At this point, because the lawyer (who seems very understanding of your situation) has seen both of you, maybe the lawyer could recommend someone else for you to go to on your own.

[Deby64]

Posion, he told us when we walked in he could only represent one of us. He said it would be me, since I made the phone call. Since we've returned home his whole attitude has changed, he is now really wanting to stick it to me on a financial level. He's so mentally unstable. He said now I could buy him out for $40,000 and he would just keep the lot right next to the house. That would be a worse nightmare than I'm in now. I'm struggling with deep feelings of hopelessness. I'm trapped in this relationship that is killing me softly💔. I don't care that it will screw me in the long run to let him live here and keep paying. Lawyer says a Judge won't grant that. It's my life and it's what I want.

[Poison Ivy]

This is a time to take some deep breaths, hire the lawyer, and let the lawyer guide you through the process. In your understandable eagerness to be out of your relationship, you could cause yourself permanent financial harm if you proceed on your own. 

[SeaBreeze]

Agreeing very much with others that it's best to consult the lawyer without your spouse present. And best to let your attorney do the job that you are paying them to do. I'm surprised you and your H were both even allowed to come into the office together?

You've posted a few times that your husband wants you to be "submissive". And yet you are the breadwinner. Most traditional Christian families that adhere to Gothard-style gender roles expect the man to not only be the spiritual leader, but the protector AND the provider. Yet he's not providing, and it certainly does not sound like he's protecting. What exactly as this man's wife are you supposed to be submitting to...?

Hang in there, keep your boundaries in place and the thermostat on medium chill. And yes, while your attorney should take your wishes into account, your attorney also can offer some solid guidance that follows the law of the land.

[GoodPesto]

One sentence that stuck out to me was "We went to the lawyers office to start our divorce proceedings". After so many years spent together, being deeply bonded through PD-horror and having children it might seem the most natural thing to "seperate together" but I am afraid this won't work. You have to seperate by yourself or you might end up staying because it seems impossible to leave.
I think someone mentioned this already somewhere ... this is a marathon, not a sprint, so expect this to take time.
If you read books and would like something handy: There is a small book called "The five step exit" by Amber Ault that could guide you and remind you of the pitfalls while leaving a toxic partner.
One might wanna think once you finally made the decicion to seperate the worst is over. But this is when one of the toughest parts begins.
Wishing you endurance.

[Deby64]

Thank to all for the support. I will be getting the book today GoodPesto. Once we left I began to see a side of him that let me know. This was going to be a long ulgy ride. He was livid when the lawyer was protecting my interest and letting him know a Judge would most likely not allow him to financially benefit from me the way we wanted the agreement to go. He became so dysregulated I began to feel trapped in this marriage. I pray once I am out of this house with him. I won't be so moved by his emotions. I find myself feeling sorry for him because I know he doesn't understand how he is responding from his own feelings of shame and insecurity. I'm not trying to hurt him, I just want to live a life where I am able to feel my feelings, be validated and loved. I wish he could see that I'm doing my best to be fair, I'm not responsible for the laws of the land. He was so upset that I didn't speak up much in the attorney's office, but always speak up with him. He said I was giving more respect to another man than I do my husband. I attempted to tell him that man was protecting my interest and I didn't disagree with anything he had to say which is why I sat quietly. Of course he couldn't see that, it was yet another example of me not honoring and respecting him. I'm sort of grateful the attorney got a glimpse of what I am dealing with. At one point the attorney told him he was trying to coerce me. My upd-h stood up in anger and said let's get out of here, he can't tell me how to speak to my wife. I sat calmly and said, let's hear the lawyer out so we can get this divorce on the road. That behavior is when I knew I was in for an ulgy fight. It doesn't look like anything is going to be good for him. It all leads to him being responsible for himself, which is something he hadn't done in 40 years thanks to me. I believe he sees this on some level but his ego can't seem to let him acknowledge that. At times my mind will shift to. Just stay and make it work, then I reread my journals or read my previous post and they remind me of how irrational I'm being, things will never change and I deserve better. I'm gonna ride the waves and hold on to the keys to my freedom and continue to push forward for myself.

[Rebel13]

Hang in there Deby. Like GoodPesto said, this is going to take a while.

I definitely support you in getting your own lawyer. I know, after so many years, it goes against the grain to leave your husband to cope on his own. But have your years of caring and doing for him helped him become a better, stronger person -- or has he chosen to lapse into dependence and weakness? I don't mean to suggest that his choices are your fault, but to point out that you have tried everything you could and it hasn't helped. Now you deserve to help yourself.

If you get a lawyer for yourself, I encourage you to ask about a separation plan that doesn't leave you open to problems with abandonment or whatnot. (I don't know much about divorce law but I've heard that can be a thing.) I don't think you have to have a divorce done before you get your own living space, and I think you could eventually get a settlement that allowed you to move back to the house after he leaves, if that is what you ultimately want. If my experience is anything to go by, once you are living separately from him, the peace may give you a chance to sort out what you're feeling and think more clearly about what would be best for you and your future. It's really, really hard to figure that out when you're getting scolded and harangued all the time.

Wishing you all the best.

[Deby64]

Update, I really wish getting my own separate living quarters would come quickly. I have a few irons in the fire but everything is moving so slowly of course he has been super nice. Has not raged in the last week now that he knows I'm serious. He's even said things like you're not connected to me. We could work this out, but I see your minds made up. I have got to go. I cannot take this. I continue to revert back to my radical acceptance of he will not or cannot change. Even in his kindness he is projecting all the blame on me. I'm just MC'ing as to not rock the boat. However, there have been a few times I've looked at him and felt so sad for him. Learning to disconnect from his well being is going to be a challenge for me I'm  seeing.

[Rebel13]

Even in his kindness he is projecting all the blame on me.

I'm so glad you see this, and also that you see it's not deserved.

there have been a few times I've looked at him and felt so sad for him. Learning to disconnect from his well being is going to be a challenge for me I'm  seeing.

Well, I've heard it said that identifying the problem is the first step towards a solution!    It's so wonderful that you are a kind person with a compassionate, caring heart. Unfortunately there are lots of people in the world who want to take advantage of that. So you get to set boundaries and decide when and where your compassion moves you to action. In the last year, I've learned it's possible to have all the empathy in the world for someone and ALSO recognize that their problems are not mine to solve. I really wish I learned that earlier in life! There are so many messages that tell us, if we feel compassion, then we MUST do something -- accept the unacceptable, give up what we want for what someone else wants, set ourselves on fire to keep someone else warm. It's been so freeing for me to feel the empathy, sadness, grief or whatever, and also "drop the rope" and let other people sort themselves out.

Keep going Deby. You are doing great.

[Poison Ivy]

 

[blunk]

Deby64, I remember hearing a lot of the same once he knew I was serious. It truly is like they are all reading from the same playbook. All of a sudden he was being (too) nice, he wanted to change, he would go to therapy, we could get couple's counseling, we could renew our vows. By then it was too late. There had already been too much hurt. But when I refused any of his ideas it was rage about how everything was my fault.

As for the divorce, please do yourself the favor of talking to a lawyer on your own, and let them work in your best interest. When I started proceedings my bpdxh hadn't worked a steady job in years. But he managed to get one. You do not have to take on the burden of housing him after you are divorced. He is a grown adult who is responsible for his own well being. One of the reasons I put off divorce for so long was that I worried whether he could manage. But the truth was that he had been dragging me down for years, mentally and financially, and I couldn't let it keep going that way. I did end up paying him alimony based on the equity in our house, but it was a few hundred dollars a month...not a full mortgage payment.

[Deby64]

Blink, this is awful. The house I was supposed to move into has been put on hold. There is nothing else in this little country town. A few apartments that I'm not willing to live in. He went to his own lawyer today and said looks like this will work out if you don't contest it. I asked for specifics and of course it was a circular conversation. Last night he wanted s*x, and continues to say. If we just get on the same page and you listen to me. We can work this out. I feel trapped in my own body. I can't even get him to understand why I'm so unhappy. I don't even attempt to explain because I know how that turns out. He's happy as a pig in a slop pen, with me saying nothing and just agreeing with whatever he says. Mostly small talk. I did remind him yesterday of some of the stuff he said. I told him I've hurt him so deeply I can't see it being repaired. That jolted him some and he replied I don't need to worry about his healing, just focus on getting my heart right towards him🤦🏾 This unrealistic life is driving me to the edge. Not being able to have an open, honest conversation about what's going on is insanity. I keep focusing on radical acceptance; Nothing absolutely Nothing will ever change in our dynamics because he sees himself as perfect. If I choose to continue the dance to regulate his emotions, thoughts and feeling while keeping mine dead and dormant inside we could go on another 40 years. However, I choose to live. 🤬
I know I'm just venting and apologize for the rant. I'm just super tired and feel stuck.

[blunk]

No need to apologize.

It's amazing that he is looking to get his way 100% regardless of which path you take. If you divorce, but don't you don't contest giving him the house, he can get what he wants. If you stay married, but don't contest him being in total control, he can get what he wants. And then to ask for s3x after all of that, I am feeling angry on your behalf.

I spent so many years trying to get my bpdxh to see how his behavior affected me, trying to find just the right words to express myself. But it never mattered, because he didn't care if he hurt me as long as he 100% got his way, nothing less was acceptable.

I'm sorry, I don't remember more of your story. Do you have the option to stay anywhere else until you are able to find suitable (hopefully temporary) housing? Family? Friends? Sympathetic co-worker? I know I can't tell you what to do, but I do believe that you should fight to keep the home you are paying for. It seemed that even the lawyer thought it would not be acceptable to the court for you to pay while he lived there. There are so many things that could go wrong in that scenario, causing you further financial harm. Believe me, I get wanting to do or pay whatever you can to have the nightmare end. The reality is, it will be a fight either way, so you may as well look out for your own best interests...mentally, physically, and financially.

Please be safe.

[MaxedOut]

Deby64, definitely don't trust his report on divorce consult. He is really trying a number of emotional manipulation tactics. Another book recommendation since you may be needing to navigate communications for a bit: Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward has  great background and concrete steps to manage situations.

I just want to emphasize this a bit: As you are recovering from HIP SURGERY, that he was not supportive enough for you to entrust post-surgical support... and after you decided to divorce and he sabotaged a joint lawyer meeting... he wanted sex! And shared that with you instead of keeping the notion to himself like a decent person would if they even felt that impulse.

That feels like one of the "penny drop moments" I had coming Out of the FOG. The sheer lack of empathy, sense of entitlement, and self-centered behavior in that one detail shows his capacity for a healthy relationship.

Have you checked to see if there are AirBnB or VRBO rentals in the area? That was what I did when I left. I looked for ones that seemed to also do medium/long term stays. If you are in a rural area of the US, there may be a hidden market of these to support travel nurses and such.

[escapingman]

I don't know your full story, but I can see similarities. When I dropped the bomb of divorce uNPDxw first tried to be as nice as she possible could, when I didn't buy into it she raged at me for not accepting her "love" and when I didn't fall in line by the rage she became the victim and cried on the floor because I was so mean. This kept going on every day for months and in the end it was not possible to live under the same roof anymore. I managed to get her to move out as she had family nearby and that was when I could start heal. Reading your last posts I think you are at the point where one of you have to move out, can you get him to move out in any way? Can you move out? I am not sure about your history but is there any chance he could get dangerous when not getting his way? Please take care as PD people can get very disorded when they lose their control.

[notrightinthehead]

Deby, as others have written, it might be so much better for you if you can separate asap. You might find that you can think more clearly and feel your own emotions so much more clearly and get to know better what is the right thing to do.
And please listen to the legal advice if you think the lawyer advices in your own interest. Your husband is more than capable to look after himself, from what you wrote he does nothing but.

[Deby64]

The support and validation of my thoughts and feelings I receive from here are amazing. They keep my head Out of the FOG. We live in a small country town of about 5500 people. He grew up here and everybody knows your name sort of speak. The only reason I choose to stay in the area is because of my elderly mother. We lost my father who was our family rock almost 2 years ago. Everyday my upd-h is vacillating between this is what's best for us to I can't believe how you've used and abused my all this years and how I have an evil spirit. He is unable to see that in 40 years he's had maybe 5 jobs 2 of which I hired him to provide household income. All he wants is the house and me to pay for it. He says I'll never sell it, it's a legacy for our children. I don't trust that at all. I think I'm letting my ego get in the way because I'm not willing to pack myself into a room at my mother's. That feels as if it would add to my stress because I'd be super uncomfortable. There are a few apartments that won't be available until mid July. I want to move NOW.. He's only put his hands on me once in all these years and I feel like he's on the edge of doing it again as I push back on his demands to have everything his way. I will continue to use MC as he slings accusations and rages my way. Thank you all for the understanding and support. I will be posting and sharing my story often. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 for me. Again thanks for being here for me.

[GoodPesto]

One thing that came to mind Deby64 was that it might be time to not be completely straight with your soon-to-be-ex partner. You strike me as someone who shares next steps and values being honest. Nothing wrong with it per se of course but to actually be able to leave at some point it might be helpful to keep him a in the dark with regards to your plans. This way you take away his ability to sabotage them. I might be wrong but from what I perceive he strucks me as someone who thrives on thinking he is in control, knowing it all and I could picture you got used to serving him information. Again, I could be totally wrong, but in case I am not, think about not giving him any more information, or about presenting half-truths or even straight-out lies to save yourself.
From what I am reading I'd say this man could get dangerous when he realises you dare to truly leave him. He wants you to submit and you leaving is the pinnacle of the contrary. On top he is highly dependend on you to live his life the way he is used to, so please do not underestimate.
In case it saves you trouble you could also pretend a little to be backing off or reconsidering your seperation plans while continuing to prepare your exit behind his back. When everything is prepared you could in the end friendly wave him goodbye saying "I am with XY this afternoon, see you later" and never return. Anything to save your life.

[Deby64]

GoodPesto, your words are confirmation to me. My oldest daughter just told me to stop telling him everything. I am so accustomed to telling him my every move. She said mom, he says he's your friend and wants to help, but you know if it doesn't benefit him, he's not going to do anything. Hard truth to swallow, but truth none the less. I believe I'm giving up on the house I was waiting for and going to rent an apartment. I spoke with the lady today, he over heard me and just looked at me and shook his head, in disgust. Today's he's doing the silent treatment. Little does he know this is great for me. The days of trying to get him to talk to me cause I felt I had done something wrong are over. The less I hear his voice the better. I'm being super sensitive to his moods to keep myself safe. I truly don't want to see him snap until I'm out of this house🙏🏾