New - Getting divorced from my PD spouse

[thefivewhysguy]

Hi All,

My therapist sent me to Out of the FOG to learn about PD's.  I'm in the midst of a divorce at the moment, and my therapist suspects that my still-technically-wife is BPD.  Reading the descriptions and behaviors was a sudden and powerful validation of so many things I'd experienced over 10 years in relationship with her and brushed off, made excuses for, or just made do with.  Luckily I was able to move out, so our communications are sporadic. 

It all happened so quickly though and I'm having a hard time figuring out who I am now?  I'm in my late 30's and shouldn't I have a better idea?  I spent so much of my life managing my STW's mood swings.  And honestly, my mother is definitely NPD and raised me and my siblings in a mind healing cult.  So I'm sure I brought plenty of CPTSD to the table. 

A couple questions I had right off the bat... 
1)  What level of awareness to PD's have that they are acting in these ways?  Like, does she *know* she's being manipulative?  Does she realize she's baiting me into a fight that I don't want to have?  Is there a part of her that's like "wow this is so fucked up and crazy why do I do these things???" or ...?  What?  How does she experience this? 

2)  If the answer to 1 is "not much", then would I know if I was suffering from a PD? 

3)  How does one learn to recognize the signs of PD's early?  I feel like I'm realizing that several people in my life suffer from NPD and I'm confused as to how I didn't realize it sooner. 

Thanks, looking forward to spending time hear learning and growing. 

YYYYY-Guy

[notrightinthehead]

Welcome! If your mother suffered from a PD you probably have learned how to enable people with PDs and have become an attractive partner for them. Therefore you might find a lot of them within your social circle. I have an interesting collection. As you come Out of the FOG you will recognize more and more strange behaviour that before seemed 'normal' to you. The devious thing is, we all have such traits, so in a way they are normal, just in people with a PD, they are so much stronger, inflexible, overwhelming, all encompassing. Having said that, most people with a PD do not behave as they do on their own, they all have people around them who enable them to continue the way they are.
When we come Out of the FOG we are still caught up in our enabling behaviour and focussed on THEM. We ask ourselves why they are like that, how do they think, why do they behave like that and so on. Later in our healing process we come to a point where the focus shifts from them to US. Why are we so scared to speak our mind? Set and enforce boundaries? Remove ourselves from the abuse? That is when the real change can happen, we are changing ourselves, become healthier, and no longer accept abusive behaviour in our life.
In answer to your question 1, I have asked myself this so often. I suspect that the people with PD in my life are not very self aware and therefore do not behave as they are on purpose. They are driven by their emotions and are acting out, more like a small child would do. This, however, does not mean that I can save them or change them.
As to question 2, do you suspect you have a PD? What makes you think so? Are you willing to work on yourself? Probably the more self aware you are, the less likely you will suffer from a PD.
3. If you come from a family in which one or more members suffer with a PD,  it will be difficult to recognize the red flags because of what was normal in your family. You are educating yourself now and with increased knowledge you will have a choice on what kind of behaviour you will find acceptable and what not.   
See you around on the boards!

[guitarman]

Welcome. You are not alone.

I have an undiagnosed BPD/NPD sister. I didn't know for years about personality disorders. It was only when I saw a psychiatrist myself because I wasn't coping well that they informed me about BPD. The more I learnt about BPD then everything else sort of made more sense. I later learnt about NPD and that seemed to make even more sense of all the chaos and dramas.

I have learnt about Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and how targets of abuse can cope better, having experienced the most extreme stress. Other people don't understand what we have had to endure. It's not surprising that you feel the way that you do. You are not alone here on the forum. There are so many people here trying to make sense of what they have experienced, maybe for decades. What has helped me is sharing my experiences with others here and in person in support groups but that is not possible now because of the pandemic. I realise that I will probably need ongoing support, maybe for the rest of my life, because of all the abuse I have experienced. 

I now call my sister my abuser. That has fundamentally changed how I have viewed her behaviour. She is not going to change and I can't change her. I have learnt about CPTSD and I can identify with that as a diagnosis for myself. I have experienced trauma for decades, never knowing what life threatening incident will happen next. I care but can't cope. I often feel like I have been living in a war zone waiting for the next bomb to drop. I experience hypervigilance and anticipatory dread most of the time.

For ongoing support I regularly watch the talks on YouTube by Kris Godinez. She is an author and counsellor who specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. Her YouTube channel is called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez". I also follow "Doctor Ramani" and "Surviving Narcissism" on YouTube as well. They have all helped me so much to learn and understand more.

There is the "Toolbox" section on the website where you can learn about how to cope better. I post regularly in the "Other Media Resources" section of the forum mostly about NPD.

As part of my self care routine I practice regular Mindfulness guided meditations that have helped me. I follow the Mindfulness teacher Tara Brach online, on YouTube and Facebook. Her website is www.tarabrach.com

You are asking questions that I have often asked myself as well. I think my sister is emotionally blind to other people's feelings. She just can't do it. If she could then she wouldn't keep hurting and abusing them. I judge her not by what she says but by her actions and behaviour. If it hurts it isn't love.

What your partner has been doing by baiting you is getting you to keep feeding her narcissistic supply. How to lessen that is by you calmly using the Grey Rock and Medium Chill techniques.

I don't think that you would be diagnosed with a PD as you have insight into your own behaviour. You might be reacting as you do because you have been the target of abuse for so long. You may get all your buttons pushed and react in maybe an aggressive way back. That is the Narcissistic Cycle of Abuse where the abuser turns everything around to become the victim. I know about that! They create a situation to get the reaction they so desperately crave.

I didn't know about PDs for decades. Why would I? No one ever told me. Now I know more I see people living with PDs all the time, especially in the news and on social media.

We all need to tell our stories and find support with others. We need to raise awareness about Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. The more you can learn about PDs the better equipped you will be to live a more peaceful life in the future. It is possible.

I am glad to know that you are seeing a therapist. They will be able to help you so much more. Take things slowly. You have a lot to learn about and to understand. Be gentle with yourself.

Observe, don't absorb.

Keep calm. Keep strong. Keep posting.

[Hepatica]

Hi thefivewhysguy,

I just want to welcome you to Out of the FOG. It's a great community and excellent support forum. I think you'll get a lot from it, even just from reading people's posts.

Regarding your questions I think the best way to learn is to do as guitarman says, which is to watch youtube videos and check out the tool box. I like Jerry Wise and Dr. Ramani. I've spent a lot of time watching various videos during the pandemic and learned a lot. I've also read Peter Walker's book From Surviving to Thriving and it really woke me up fast. It's a great book.

Regarding PD's level of awareness and therefore could we be PD as well. That's a good question. From what I've learned we, as children of disordered families do need to work on our "fleas" (see toolbox) and I am working on these certainly, but with PD's there is rarely any self-reflection. They have very entrenched behaviour that shows up as controlling and manipulative. They often have a lot of enablers who feed their fragile ego.

We, just by walking away from them, cause narcissistic injury and then find ourselves on the receiving end of abuse, even by our own parents and families. It's a system of disorder that they do not want changed. It is in inflexible and yet insecure and feeds voraciously on drama.

I find mindfulness meditation really helpful. Just began watching Tara Brach videos on her website. Self-compassion is key, i think, for healing from this. You'll find support here.

I hope this helps.

[thefivewhysguy]

Thanks all so much! 

Yes, I am definitely still getting pulled into her drama.  Though, instinctively I've stayed as clear of it all as possible.  We used to run a restaurant together so there was non-stop drama and it's so great to finally be free of all that.  Just read about Grey Rock and Medium Chill.  My therapist had basically recommended this same course of action though she didn't call it that.  I'll have to redouble my efforts.

As far as worrying about having a PD myself, I guess it's good to know that even asking that question means "no".   I do worry that I've picked up some narcissistic (or just PD in general) behaviors from my mom and spouse (is that "getting fleas"?) 

Anyway thanks again... I have been poking around the forums and it's great to see everyone supporting each other through these challenges.