Fear of NC: 'what if they die and I'll regret not seeing them again?'

[Stardust1982]

Hi guys.

Reading posts here about NC, I realized that some of you here have the same fear as I had when I first went NC (broke it later on): what if NPDmother dies and I'll regret not seeing her again? Or what if both of them die?
I think this is definitely a result of their manipulation that was instilled in me over the years. I still remember my mother's references to how children are meant to take care of their parents when they're old and that's the 'nice' thing to do (  )
So the thought I have is certainly shaped by their brainwashing.

Question is: how did you handle this thought of regret (if you ever had it) during your NC? Or the thought that NC is so definite and eternal...(the thought that you can't ever see them, talk to them, know about their lives or be there when they get sick or when they die)
Do you think one can live with this thought and overcome the guilt and regret (if any) of never having to go back to them?

Sincerely, I don't love my parents, especially my Borderline-NMother. She didn't teach me anything, I had to learn everything about being an adult from other people and on my own. If someone told me 'You are allowed to go NC with your parents, even tomorrow if you want to. Nothing bad will happen to you, you won't regret it at all, they'll leave you alone for good and things will go very smoothly for you.' I would definitely do it.

Let me know your experiences

[GettingOOTF]

To be honest this is still a fear of mine. I’m
working through it. I think the key is to accept that they can’t change and aren’t capable of loving the way we need to be loved.

It’s taken me a long time to get to the level of acceptance I have and I’m still FOGgy when it comes to my family. I worry a lot about my sister as she’s not PD just covered in fleas. I feel like I could handle my father dying but I remember how destabilizing it was when my mother died and I had to finally fully come to terms with the fact that I’d never have a relationship with her.

These decisions are so hard and I think at the end of the day we choose what we think will cause us the least harm.

If my father had two weeks to live then I may not have gone NC, but men in my family live a really long time so realistically I could have another 15 years of abuse and it was getting worse. He did not mellow with age.

My father had a health incident where he and pretty much everyone else including the doctors thought he’d die. The call I had with him which could have been our last was one of the worst. He was so unbelievably cruel to me. That gave me some perspective on the likelihood of a “deathbed” acknowledgment of the hurt and an expression of love.

[DistanceNotDefense]

I'm very early on with NC but this thought does cross my mind. It's a scary thought to grapple with.

GettingOOTF makes a good point to me - what would the deathbed talk be like? Probably not good or pleasant at all....any love you'd try to express would likely not be felt or well-received in a non-abusive way.

I imagine that if I had to face this fact of knowing FOO was about to die and I just couldn't be there for it, maybe I would do a ceremony or ritual to send them off without them. Maybe include others who knew them. And put love and appreciation into it, sending good thoughts and a send-off their way, in an energetic or spiritual sense where it won't be occluded or muddied by the effect they have on you....one last prayer of appreciation that you hope they feel and know somewhere deep inside. I know I'd probably not feel that in their presence and maybe it would be better that way.

[TwentyTwenty]

So, I'm thankful that I'm in a different boat if sorts, and have complete peace an happiness about it. When my parents drop in their grave, if they haven't already, there will be two less people on the earth that believe that I'm evil.

Why would I care about seeing anyone that says that I'm an evil person again before they die?

[JustKathy]

My Nmother actually did die while I was NC. Everyone is different, but in my case, I have no regrets at all about not visiting her.

When my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer I was posting in a different forum. I was very torn about visiting her, but a few people had already lost their Nmothers and cautioned me not to go. I was told that any idea of a PD parent having some kind of death-bed epiphany and apologizing is a fantasy and that they'd rather spend their final moments sticking the knife in you one last time. They were right. When I failed to visit my mother she had me disinherited and turned my siblings against me.

I really believe that I made the right decision in not breaking NC. As TwentyTwenty said, why go visit someone who had spent her life telling others I was evil, "the bad seed," as my mother called me. The world is a better place without her in it.

No regrets at all. Just none.

[Stardust1982]

@GetingOOTF that's a good point about the death bed thing! I imagine even then, they'd be cruel and abusive and your call with the abusive father proves this. Are you NC with him now?

@DistancenotDefense I love the ceremonial ritual that we could do when they die. Perhaps this is the best approach to coping with their physical loss. I'll certainly think about this.

@TwentyTwenty you have a good mindset! Really wish I could get there myself.

So, perhaps the thought of what if I'd regret not seeing them again and then they die is a reflection of my subconscious need to get the love and validation I always craved from them. It's about seeing them as I want them to be and not as they are. Because, to tell you the truth, not only they haven't changed but they became more controlling, more manipulative and narcissistic as they're now in their 70's (and going strong btw).

Let's think for a while: someone who has healthy and loving parents and gets into a fight with them and he/she doesn't speak to them for some time, that person might think 'But what if they die, I'd lose them forever and would regret not being there for them and share the last moments we have together'. That WOULD make sense, right? Because the person would truly enjoy spending time with them, even if they were sick and dying.
But..in our case, if they were to be on their deathbed, they'd be AS ABUSIVE as we know them (if not more! illness causes stress, and stress exacerbates the abusive behavior in NPDs/BPDs) while caring for them on their deathbed. So why even bother to going back to them and worrying for their health-when all we'd get back is abuse and invalidation?

I do believe that this thought will disappear in time, especially during NC.

[Stardust1982]

@JustKathy your post gives me hope. It's clear they're never going to change. I think illnesses ONLY change normal, healthy people. The PDs are a different kind

[poetandpunk]

I can relate to your questions and I've thought about this a lot myself.

However I was told last year that my dad is threatening to write me out of his will.

It's this sort of thing that makes me think I just need to keep my distance. In families with PD/NPD parents, the normal rites of passage and relationship highs and lows do not exist.

When my dad said that about the will it confirmed to me all of my choices about going NC. A parent that threatens and tries to manipulate their child that way is ADVERTISING their emotional immaturity and the transaction, self-centered nature of their parenting style. 'Give me what I want or I will shame you.' Etc.

Personally I don't care about the will - I never expected anything and I never planned or budgetted for it.

It's sad, sometimes I have dreams or daydreams about something awful happening to my parents or one of them dying. I'm sure I'll feel sad and grieve when that day comes. I really will. And I will honor their memory in my own way.

But I don't think for me personally that will involve visiting them during an illness or attending a funeral.

The only exception to this is if my parent(s) have a REAL, solid conversion of heart and mind and real transformation, one that I could trust. But I don't see that as likely and I am not sure I will ever find out even if that does happen.

Don't know if that helps at all but that's where I am with this issue / question.

[Boat Babe]

I'm not NC with my mother as she is not as extreme as some and hope to be there to help her in her last days. However this is for her rather than for me. She will continue to be a full metal waif until the day she dies and when she is gone, well I am not anticipating a flood of grief. This is because I started grieving for the mother I needed but didn't have, many many years ago and I'm already through to the other side even though she's still alive.

You won't get much from a final goodbye in my opinion, because we know that PDs don't/can't/won't change. That's why people go NC in the first place. And do a lot of grieving in the first phase of the process. I think a deathbed enlightenment from a PD parent is a toxic hope sadly.

Sending hugs to you all.

[D.]

I have been thinking about this question as my parents age too.    I remember having this fantasy w/my exuNPDH, one of us on our death bed w/his finally and sincerely feeling remorseful and apologizing for what he did.  I wonder how much this fantasy comes from the media in the form of shows, novels, movies, etc.  That tends to be what happens in "Hollywood."  But as many have said here, it is a place of fantasy. 

I too have not yet had to go full NC.  It seems my PD parents can be appropriate if I see them a couple of times per year w/very specific boundaries and setting.  And sometimes I wonder, hmmm, should I call?  What if I don't see her/him again?  At the moment my  thought is "well, I did the best that I could.  It hurts me to be in contact.  I need to care for myself first."  I then feel peace within and if one of them dies right now, I know that I did my best.  This is of course all hypothetical...I suppose I won't know for certain until each one dies.  Perhaps there are resources out there for what to expect?  It couldn't help to be prepared...

[Call Me Cordelia]

Death is simply a fact. It's not a what if, it's a when.

In making decisions, you have so much information, you have your values, and your fit them together as best you can, yes? I hope I don't sound patronizing. I have to remind myself of this when I get all second-guessy and perfectionist asking what if it wasn't the Right Choice. But if I sincerely tried to do what was right, well then I sincerely tried to do good. If I get new information, I can reassess if needed. Mortality is not new information.

"What if they die?" is like nails on chalkboard to me. Of COURSE they will die. Maybe they'll get hit by a bus tomorrow and maybe they'll linger for decades. What if YOU die before you find peace in your life, hm? You can't remove the possibility of regret one way or the other. Very often we have no great options. Why are you thinking of NC? If those reasons are good ones (e.g. to protect yourself, not to punish your parents) and fit your situation, and you are operating from a place of sincerity, there is no logical cause for reproach. You'll have plenty of your own grief to work through whatever you decide. If you're at the point of thinking NC, you've suffered a lot of loss already.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I wanted to add a personal story here. When my uPDF wrote his multiple-page Letter of Doom to my pastor a few months into NC, he indicated that he was prompted in part by being involved in a car accident in which he Could Have Died.

So his response to this near-death experience was to go for one more particularly vicious round of blaming everything bad in his life on me, completely assassinate my character to my pastor with outrageous lies, all the usual blame and shame on steroids, and now using his potential demise as one more tool for emotional blackmail. So that's what I can expect from him. And it took my NC decision from temporary to permanent. I won't take another heap of that when we all know he's dying. He can take it to the grave if he chooses, but not put it on me.

[deletedtrust]

I struggle with this too and it's why I haven't gone NC with my PD mother.

She has always told me that I'll be the one to care for her in her old age (I'm her only child) and that she wants me there to hold her hand when she dies. Forever she has said this, even when I was so little I shouldn't even be thinking about a parent's death. As a mother now I honestly think it would be a joy for my kids' faces to be the last thing I saw before I died but it's not their job to do me that honor and I certainly haven't drilled it into their heads. Knowing how I happy I would be for them to be the last thing I saw I can feel empathy for my mother's request and if I go NC, I would never be able to fulfill it or even just say goodbye.

But then we have the other side of the coin- she only gets in contact with me when she wants money and in the past she has lied, stolen from me, and brought cruelty and drama into my home before I told her she couldn't stay with me anymore, so what do I really owe her? Ouch.

I hope you can find peace in this decision, Stardust1982.  <3

[BettyGray]

My folks are in their 80s and I expect they will most likely be gone in the next few years.

I have decided I will not get dragged back into anything and certainly not a funeral. Why would anyone want me there anyway - in my opinion it is more respectful NOT to go.  The funeral should be about the deceased, not us. Honestly what good would come of it. For anyone?

So I have made my decision ahead of time and have peacefully accepted that I will feel whatever I feel at the time. I will process it and live with it. None of us know how we will react when it finally happens. But I know better than to insert myself into a highly vulnerable and dangerously emotional situation.

[Psuedonym]

Hello Stardust1982!

I have been through the scenario you're describing; I was NC with uPD M when she died in May. As someone who's been through it, here are some thoughts:

I've written in the past about the concept of 'going NC' and how its damaging and misleading. It implies that you have severed all contact with your parents. Here's how pretty much every NC situation (including mine) I've read about came to be. a) You set boundaries. You say something like you're not willing to keep (fill in the blank here: have guilt heaped upon you for not fixing their misery, listen to them rage, take care of their needs 24/7, whatever it is) and you're not going to interact with them unless they change their behavior. b) they react by denying everything, call you crazy, a liar, ungrateful, etc. and INSIST that everything stay exactly the way it is because THEY SAID SO. 

THIS IS THEIR CHOICE. Let me say that again, the NC is their choice. Let me put it this way, if you had a dear friend who one day came to you and said that they could no longer be your friend because your behavior was destructive and hurtful to them, and gave you examples of that behavior, would you react by calling up everyone you knew and smearing that person's name and reputation? Or would you say 'holy $#@% I had no idea that what I was doing was so harmful! I am so sorry, what can I do to make things better?' If you chose the first option, who's fault would the end of the relationship really be?

PDs have zero internal locus of control. They blame everything that happens and everything they feel on someone else. Because we grew up with this kind of thinking, I think we automatically assume that NC is something 'we do' and not in fact a self-preserving reaction to what they insist on doing.

A couple of other things to think about: You said in your post that you don't love, in particular, your BorderlineN/mother. PDs are pretty predictable in outliving their spouses (they just wear them down) and they typically get much worse as they age. If you think she's bad now, consider the possibility that she might outlive your dad, at which point all of that malice that was directed at him is going to come straight to you. Believe me, I have lived through this, and it was the least fun thing ever. And as Call Me Cordelia pointed out, there is no guarantee that you will outlive them. If you ever read our beloved WomanInterrupted's posts, you saw that she had two quite awful PD parents. She outlived them, but tragically only by about six months. It was horribly sad, but a reminder that life is not fair, and there are no rewards for living through horribly unfair situations, at least not in this life.

I was very fortunate that my H was there and able to stay in contact with uPD M after I finally dropped the rope. I say fortunate because he was able to relay the dozens of conversations he had with her in which she claimed she had no idea why I wasn't f talking to her. He would call bullshit, tell her she knew exactly what she needed to change, and she would launch into her speech about how she was 'the greatest mother in the world!' and I was crazy, a liar, etc. etc. She would tell him she had no reason to apologize for anything and then accuse me of things she did herself. Bananas. Zero remorse. I am an only child. She had no other relatives. And yet she chose to spend the last 18 months of her life bad mouthing me to every one she had a conversation with. My H talked to her two days before she died (it was pretty sudden when it happened) and she was saying all the same things. There were no end of life epiphanies or realizations, just more gaslighting, lying and projection.

I will close by saying that when she did die, I felt relief. Sweet, sweet relief that was almost euphoric. I couldn't believe I was finally free of that dark cloud of misery and whining and self pity. As the months have gone on, I've gone through feelings of sadness about what a negative influence she was, and moments of 'why the hell did she have to be that way?' but one thing I haven't felt is regret that I didn't put myself through an extra 18 months of hell.

Hope that helps a little!

[Stardust1982]

@Call me Cordelia-thank you for opening up my eyes! I realized I slipped into the caretaker's role in this post and again was worried for my parents dying and me not being there for them. This is absolutely ridiculous. That's because my parents have never been there for me during my illnesses and they have certainly not been there for my relatives' deaths and illnesses. They're empty shells without empathy or love in their bones. I don't know how to explain it but all they do all day long is fulfill their basic, most primal needs (eating, sleeping, drinking), gossip and do their narcissistic game with me and my siblings. For them, other people don't exist fully, they feel like objects or statues that they see and walk right by them.

I noticed that when my mother's uncle's wife died -she acted like a robot, no sense of empathy, no emotion, nothing. She actually said, 'I guess I need to go to the funeral to fulfill my duty', in a bored tone of voice.

So why in the world I would worry and care for these 2 unlikeable people when they clearly have no worry or concern for anyone, including myself and my siblings.
BTW, my brother had Covid some months ago and she didn't even bring the subject into the conversation. No worry in her bone, nothing. he is well now but I can't imagine how he felt not receiving the care and affection from his own mother during his tough time. She could have, at least comforted him but I know she didn't do that.

My point is that, we  (adult children of PDs) feel worried and responsible to care for people who abused us and who would not care for us in return. This is something very specific to us. I need a therapist to help me overcome this trait. I quite despise how I am and that I was brought up to think it is ok to give and care for someone even though that someone might not care about you (or may even hurt you in return).

[Stardust1982]

@Pseudonym

Yeah, your response is very helpful! They do choose the NC option. And yeah I would be worried if a friend would wanna go NC with me because I am hurting them, will certainly try to change my ways. That is why I cannot understand why PDs deny they are abusive, I just cannot put myself well enough in their shoes to get why they feel the need to tell their adult children who are hurt and consider NC that they are perfect and the adult children are the evil ones. But I guess no one here understands NPDs, you need to be one to understand it.

My Efather is severely abused by BP/NPD mother (I think she has both BP and NPD) and I hope she won't ruin him for good. It's sad to see how she is getting her evil supply from him daily (I witness some stuff and it's not pretty) but of course I can't help him (nor do I want to, he has chosen her over me and my brothers and defends her constantly if we try to criticize her).

Sorry to make this about me. I do understand your post and I have taken valuable information from it.

Thanks, everyone. I'm nearly convinced into going NC early next year.

[DistanceNotDefense]

I quite despise how I am and that I was brought up to think it is ok to give and care to someone even though that someone might not care about you (or may even hurt you in return).

Don't despise how you are! Despise how a good part of your nature was exploited by people who should have protected you so they could protect themselves. It's on you to cut off codependency and enabling, yes - but it's an inherently good trait to care about others. You just don't always have to act on it.

[Stardust1982]

@Distance not Defense Thanks That helps a lot, I always forget about my caring personality.

[JustKathy]

@JustKathy your post gives me hope. It's clear they're never going to change. I think illnesses ONLY change normal, healthy people. The PDs are a different kind

You're absolutely right. They're incapable of change, at least not in a positive way. My Nmother's behavior actually got worse when she got her cancer diagnosis.

When my father called to tell me my mother had an inoperable tumor, he said she only had only four weeks to live. She lived another four years after that. I don't even know if she died from the original cancer or something else. During those four years there was SO much drama. She demanded constant attention. She ruined my cousin's wedding by making it all about her terminal illness, saying that the wedding would be her last trip out. (I later saw the wedding pics on Facebook and she looked fine.) She even went so far as to conceal an uncle's brain tumor diagnosis so I wouldn't go visit him or pay him any attention. After she passed I got a letter from my enFather saying, "Oh, by the way, your uncle died a few months ago from a brain tumor. Thought you'd want to know."

When she had my former GCbro and I disinherited, she told my brother that if he divorced his wife (who she hated) he'd be reinstated in the will. Of course he refused. All the high drama over the disinheritance was comical. She acted like she and enDad were wealthy and expected us to go to extremes to get reinstated. In reality, all they had was a small home in a rural area that I wouldn't have wanted anyway. Her only desire was to spend her final years watching her children attack each other while she pulled the strings like a puppetmaster. I refused to play along and am so glad I stayed away. I have severe anxiety and C-PTSD. I just didn't need her dragging me down any further.