A little confused

Started by Seven, February 06, 2021, 07:06:33 AM

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Seven

Not sure where to post this, so I picked here since it's where I post the most

I know one of the mantras here is "it's none of our business what other people think about us"

My thing is I want to know what other people think/say about me so I am able to choose the kind of relationship to have with them, if any at all. 

I mean, is it wrong to want to know all the shitty things my mother has said about me?  Is it wrong for my siblings not to tell me?  Why do they feel the need to keep it a secret?  Why are they trying to protect uNPDm fragile ego?

When my mother bailed on my sons wedding rehearsal dinner she said it was because of her back.  I brought her back to her ILF.  She then thought all of my out of town brothers and sisters were going to come visit her (she literally said "everyone's coming to visit me now, right?"  Ha! not even close to the plan) and when that didn't happen, she shrugged her shoulders and chose to go play bingo with her friends.  If Sis2 hasn't told me what she did, I would've thought uNPDm stayed in her room in bed because of her back. I might have even felt sorry for her.  I'm glad Sis2 told me, and I in turn told my son (after his honeymoon of course) because I felt he had a right to know.  This is only a more recent example.  There are plenty others that have to do with me that my siblings have kept quiet about that have only recently come to light.

I'm having a difficult time reconciling this in my head "none of my business" or "I need to know so I can choose my own level of relationship".

My waters are muddied for sure.

SunnyMeadow

#1
I see both of your thoughts, none of my business and need to know. When I know the shitty things my mom says about me it's easier for me to feel very little for her. I can drop the rope more. After decades of her crap, I still have the enmeshment and the "but she's my mother" thing in my head. Now throw in elderly too and my head plays games from all sides.

As for your siblings keeping quiet, I've been in this position. My uNPD mother has told me all kinds of things about various people. At times I haven't told those people what she said because it would hurt their feelings. Other times, I do tell depending on what my mother is spewing. It's a case by case basis. From my experience, it isn't protecting my mother as it is protecting the other person. I don't want to be the one who spreads her filth either.

I listen to my mother and think she's talking out of her ass most of the time. Her opinions and thoughts don't mean anything at the time because they can change in an instant. She could say hateful things about a sibling but if that sibling went to visit her and brought her gifts, they'd be the best people ever.  :stars: 

Recently I overheard some family talking about me and wish I hadn't heard it. My heart is hardened to them now and I don't like it. So the mantra you wrote “it’s none of our business what other people think about us”, I'm conflicted about that. I get your point about wanting to know. But I was faced with what people think about me and it changed me. And these people have a right to feel this about me but it still hurts. I know I've talked about family members to my husband. It's just discussion about them but it doesn't change that I love and like them. If they overheard this though, it could hurt their feelings. So knowing this I figure most people talk about others in various ways. An example is a family member who talks, a lot. I really like this person but I know not to get too deep into certain topics. I've talked to my husband about it to see if he has the same feeling. If that person overheard me, they'd be hurt.

Oh boy, I think my post is a back and forth confusing one but your questions just started my fingers typing!







Sneezy

Quote from: Seven on February 06, 2021, 07:06:33 AM
I mean, is it wrong to want to know all the shitty things my mother has said about me? 
Not wrong at, in fact perfectly normal if you ask me.  I am incredibly curious and would love to be a fly on the wall for a day or two, just to hear my mother's version of things and what she says about me. 

As far as my siblings, we seem to have come to a happy medium when it comes to sharing information.  If mom calls one of them and goes on a 45-minute crying jag, complete with threats to move or take some other drastic action, they let me know.  But if it's just mom's normal "everybody is mean to me and the food is terrible and I'm bored and Sneezy won't take me to the Dollar Tree" crap, then they don't bother to pass it along to me.  Similarly, I let them know if mom is having serious mental or physical issues, or if she seems to be doing particularly well (as they may want to call when she's having a good day).  But I don't bother them with the little stuff.

I did share one story with one of my brothers where mom was saying some pretty mean stuff about him.  But, she had also told me the exact same story about another brother.  Neither story was true, of course.  But I thought it was worth letting my brother know that she was telling the same exact same stories and just changing the characters around.  It made him angry at first, but then he realized it was a good reason to discount much of what mom says, especially the mean-sprited stuff.

Thru the Rain

I had a lightbulb moment a few years ago when my Sister said "You know Mom says bad things about you too....."

I was actually stunned, but then realized "of course she does!"

Listen to what your M says about everyone else - that's the exact same stuff she's saying about you.

Seven

I really don't care what she says ABOUT me.  That part is none of my business. I really really don't care.  I'm well past the point of caring what other people think about me.

It's the part where other people feel the need to hide her bad behavior.  Like I only found out a few years ago that when I married my 1st husband very young (it happened to be on my nephews bday out of state), the parents (well, I take this back...uNPDm) didn't approve (dad didn't show emotions). Parents went to the bday party. Evidently she threatened my brothers with some kind of nasty if either of them walked me down the aisle.  At this point I had already fled the house because I was tired of her and was marrying him because "father of my son/right thing to do". But my brothers we adults at the time 27 and 30ish.

I mean, why keep something like that from me for so long?  Brain tumor Bro5 told it to me.  Of course when I tried to bring it up later in the middle of my venting to him about something else she did, he's all "what are you talking about?" and absolutely tried to redirect.  He didn't deny saying it but was avoiding the convo at all costs.

I don't understand the point of keeping things like that secret.  Why don't they want me to be mad at her?  Is it so I could continue to be a target of her abuse so they don't have to be?

Hilltop

When it comes to my sister I would love to know what she has said and what her problem with me is.  I have never been told why she has estranged herself for the past 20 years. No argument, nothing happened between us, she just froze me out. There is a reason and my mother would know but refuses to tell me, I think this is just a control thing. I'm sure my mother loves having that bit of information and knowing I want to know and knowing it hurts me not to know. I will most likely never find out and yes it is something I would like to know.  Perhaps I should start a thread.

I did find out a few things my mother has said behind my back, lies to my sister etc and I don't want to hear any more.  I can sort of guess what she says.  I am NC now and I don't want to know any more.  No good can come from it.  Knowing anything just makes me spiral so I want to move on from all of it.  I really don't want to hear any more from my parents at all.

blues_cruise

Talking behind each others' backs is part of the family dysfunction. It's just a given in my FOO as far as I'm concerned. If someone has been talking badly to you about another family member then chances are they probably do the same to you too. They probably don't realise how toxic it is because they're just mirroring the grandiose behaviour of the PD person at the head of the family.

I never did repeat anything uNF would tell me about my siblings because I just thought he was being a horrible old man and I didn't give any of the nasty things he said any weight frankly. Plus he would say these things hoping that they would be passed on with the intention of triangulating us, knowing full well that none of us would challenge him on it. There was no point because he would deny it and simply enjoy the mind game and sense of satisfaction from manipulating other people's emotions.
"You are not what has happened to you. You are what you choose to become." - Carl Gustav Jung

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." - Maya Angelou

Hepatica

#7
Someone telling me about my uNPD father going to his sisters and pitting them against me, and using them to then shame me (because I had set boundaries about how much time I'd spend in the hospital with my raging uNPD mother) how they all began to spread the news that I am a selfish daughter, really woke me up. The gossip and how it was used to tear down my character to the entire family made me realize how the family worked. (Like a gossip mill at the pre-adolescent level.)

It was important information for me to realize that I was not safe with these people. I had never been safe with them. This just confirmed it and I have to admit, I was shocked that my father chose to do this to me. I honestly didn't think he was that low. If that person had not told me what she heard them say about me, I might have come Out of the FOG even later, or never, because my father is so quiet and devious about how he turns people against each other.

It was good (and hard) to find out, but now that I know what they are like, I specifically ask not to be told any more information. I know what they are like and I don't need the punishment of them, how they put me in the villian role and never want to know why I make the decision I have made, not lightly, but made due to the rampant PD behaviour in a dysfunctional family system that spreads like wildfire.
"There is a place in you where you have never been wounded, where there's
still a sureness in you, where there's a seamlessness in you, and where
there is a confidence and tranquility." John O'Donohue

moglow

Quote from: Hepatica on February 09, 2021, 09:48:04 AM
Someone telling me about my uNPD father going to his sisters and pitting them against me, and using them to then shame me (because I had set boundaries about how much time I'd spend in the hospital with my raging uNPD mother) how they all began to spread the news that I am a selfish daughter, really woke me up. The gossip and how it was used to tear down my character to the entire family made me realize how the family worked. (Like a gossip mill at the pre-adolescent level.)

It was important information for me to realize that I was not safe with these people. I had never been safe with them. This just confirmed it and I have to admit, I was shocked that my father chose to do this to me. I honestly didn't think he was that low. If that person had not told me what she heard them say about me, I might have come Out of the FOG even later, or never, because my father is so quiet and devious about how he turns people against each other.

It was good (and hard) to find out, but now that I know what they are like, I specifically ask not to be told any more information. I know what they are like and I don't need the punishment of them, how they put me in the villian role and never want to know why I make the decision I have made, not lightly, but made due to the rampant PD behaviour in a dysfunctional family system that spreads like wildfire.

This is very much the same for me. I opened my eyes to what mother said to me, as much [more, really] as what she said about me. As Blues pointed out, if they're saying it TO me about others, I'm pretty damned sure they're saying it ABOUT me behind my back as well. It took a long time for that to sink in but once it did, it's stuck.

I honestly don't see this as them intentionally keeping things from you, so much as just not seeing it worthy of discussion. They see it and move on, but in that situation it's harder for me too. I had to constantly reframe it as "not my business, not my stuff, not in my bubble" and condition myself to stop trying to explain her to anyone. Yes, it's confirmation of how dysfunctional she and the relationship is, but it really stops there.

At the end of the day, your siblings may really be tired of her antics and just not want to talk about it. Mine hit that point long before I did, I kept asking and trying to talk it out but they wanted to do better things.

But yeah - we get it. Unfortunately it seems to be part of the process. :hug:
"She had not known the weight until she felt the freedom." ~Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter
"Expectations are disappointments under construction." ~Capn Spanky, The Nook circa 2005ish