Sorry...

[Marianne]

Hi all,

I wanted to say sorry for freaking out all over the forum.

My dad comes from a family that he himself calls narcissist...my mum from a pd family as well. Both had issues. No clue what, they thought they were perfect and I to blame for everything. So they never sought help.

I repeated my trauma with my ex. Who was suspected by experts to be autistic and NPD/ASPD. I've been in a custody battle with my ex for years about my son...his problems were partly diagnosed in the end....and all his rights terminated in court.

But by that time I was destroyed. Utterly crazy.

My parents threatened and manipulated me to get hold over my kid. There was part love and part a repetition of my childhood. Kid gave huge signals ("i want to die because of how it is here"). But mostly he was a golden child and taught all the family was perfect and I crazy and evil...as they told me and my brothers and all the family.

I healed a whole lot and my relationships with everyone are a whole lot more normal now. Kid says it's calm and fun here. I work with kids where I'm seen as calm, empathic, open. My contact with friends is fine. Friends I have know for a long time.

But kid still lives with dad. Dad fought against me in ways that very very very much reminded me of my ex. Saying things like "Im going to play nasty games over kids head" of threatening and then denying and saying "I think you are going crazy, maybe your memory starts to fail you". He is extremely strategic...hid all proof of all his problems...kept records of my responses to them...threatens to use them against me if I talk...triangluated all the family..influences kid. He is extremely subtle and sneaky...not one to beat you up all the time. I wish he did.

CPS wants to now place kid definitely with dad. It really hit me. I had all sorts of fight/flight/fawn responses. But I'm calm again. Sort of. I'm really sorry for cyring out in despair here. I realised what dad did...how I contributed to that...how we cannot escape...how history repeats itself with kid...how I lost my family over his lies and my stupid responess to that...and it just...was too much. I wish I had been stronger and calmer.

I want to now ask, in a calmer way...

How does one deal with a highly manipulative person...that has a lot to use against you (basicly freaking out in utter despair)...and has the family and cps wrapped around their finger. And that you've told all your most vulnerable stuff? That knows how to push you into despair with the subtlest little reference to an earlier threat?

I need to co-parent. Somehow.
I need to stay well for kid.
I need to make the best of our time.
I need to decide whether to keep trying to reach this person...or whether to give up on them, and go for kid and me.
I need to know how open to be with cps.

Eh. Help?

[Rebel13]

Hi Marianne,

I'm sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I'm not a parent so I don't have much personal advice, but I did think of two resources that might offer some help for you. These are in the US so I'm not sure how relevant they would be if you are in another country.

One Mom's Battle: Divorce and custody battles with narcissists https://www.onemomsbattle.com/blog - She writes some about how to prepare for court and other official interactions
High Conflict Institute: Skills to manage high conflict situations https://highconflictinstitute.com/for-individuals/

Wishing the best for you and your child.

[bloomie]

Marianne - I am sorry for the angst and difficulties you have experienced and the sad reality of not having your child with you right now. How hard.

I agree with you completely that creating a safe and calm atmosphere around yourself and your child is yours to do consistently to give you both the best chance of staying connected.

It seems like your child has already lost contact with one parent through all of this and I would imagine it is in your child's best interest for you to do what you need to do to stay steady and present however you are able to.

Co-parenting with your father for now to the best of your ability and staying strong and calm for your child and yourself are worthy goals.

[Marianne]

Hi all, after this post I was blocked from the forum. I don't know what I said wrong in this specific post...could anybody enlighten me? Now I'm accepted back on? Or am I not supposed to post? My telephone accidently opened on an old forum post.

I've been in a bad state. Kid will most likely be formally placed with my dad. If I see the stories he makes up...he might try to get custody too. It's terrifying. It's also sad to not be able to reach my dad. I love him. Still.

I've also realised that bad iron deficiency can cause one's mood and anxiety to be real bad. And causes mood swings and irritability. Wish I had known before. Supplementing for a few weeks and calmer now. A lot more capable of not freaking out. The difference is noticable. 

[xredshoesx]

Please check your PM box for any messages regarding moderation.

[NarcKiddo]

I have no idea what you may or may not have done to get blocked from the forum. I am not sure if anyone is allowed to comment on that in any case. But if you do not find any messages in your PM box about moderation then you may have got blocked due to a glitch when there was a forum software update a few weeks ago. That happened to me.

I am sorry you have been in a bad state and hope things ease for you soon.

[Marianne]

I did say something wrong...not aggressive towards another, but I was utterly despairing. I got a warning to not say that again. Then nothing. Then I posted this, and the next second I was blocked. I was kind of wondering if this post above was wrong. But it's okay...it's not to be discussed on the forum. I just doubted whether I was supposted to post. It is good to know there was a glich.

Thanks for the support. I hope you are well.

[JR]

very understandable that victims of narcissistic abuse will reach the breaking point of flaring up to others about it, don't worry marianne we get it and we've also have been to that point many times our selves when dealing with narcs, just remember we are all friends here and rely on each other for support when our time comes to vent it out.

[Marianne]

Thanks. I don't think it's fullblown narcissism. We all messed up. I was self-destructive and in flight mode a short while back.

I have to decide today and could really use advice. I need to write a piece to respond to the courts today. I have 3 choices.

1. Be silent. The story will be that my dad is the perfect dad and granddad. And I suddenly fell ill for no reason. And am completely erratic to everyone. So my son can better live with granddad. I thought about Solomons judgement: I do not wish to tear my kid apart by each pulling him to our side.

2. Defend only my own part and come with proof that I function better with son and others, than with dad. I have some people with written testimonies and son kept a record for a year with good feedback. I can say I do not want to tell what's up with dad, because I do not want to fight. I will "agree" with kid being placed with dad and not fight. But will defend my own little part, as being not as bad as dad says. I want to aim at making my own part better.

3. Tell the full story. Ask for help with dad's issues too. Tell about his trauma, his erratic behaviour. Dad will go in full on fight mode. He prepared this fight for years. Strategically hiding proof of his problems. And collecting proof of my emotional responses. And triangulating the whole family. Doing parental alienation stuff with son. I will have told truth. But nobody will believe me. Dad will be forever angry and our bond will be broken. He will be crushed. He will convince them I'm a complete lunatic. Things will likely get worse. But I have stood up for my kid. And told people what happened. I don't want to lie anymore. Maybe it is best if my faults and his faults are fully in the open. Only I do not trust CPS one bit with responding well.

I'm at loss. I love my kid. I love my dad, I hate the injustice. I want to forgive. I want to speak up. I don't think speaking up will make things better for anyone involved.

[Marianne]

My help says: we are going to help you be who god intended you to be.

But I should have, somehow, managed to do that before kid was born.

Then I would have protected him and me. And also maybe my family would have healed.

[Marianne]

"Imagine you are walking in the woods and you see a small dog sitting by a tree. As you approach it, it lunges at you, teeth bared. You are frightened and angry. But then you notice that one of its legs is caught in a trap. Immediately, your mood switches from anger to concern: You see that the dog's aggression is coming from a place of vulnerability and pain. This applies to all of us. When we behave in hurtful ways, it is because we are caught in some kind of trap. The more we look through the eyes of wisdom at ourselves and at one another, the more we cultivate a compassionate heart."

This softened me a bit towards my dad. He damaged me and my kid. Calculatedly. If he had acted differently, I would have been capable of recovery and caring for my child. He played the whole family out against me. But he acted out of pain and fear and being in a trap.

I think I need to forgive. Not necessarily reconcile. But forgive.

I just don't know how to be able to feel forgiven myself. Or if God can even forgive me.

[xredshoesx]

admin note- I did see your message and removed the content as you requested in case you can't see the PM.

your posts and journey resonate me with me deeply.  I feel like you and your son are pawns in the game your father controls - very similar to what happened with both my mother and I- the difference is you are not my mother and you are DOING EVERYTHING YOU CAN to protect both yourself and your son against a system that isn't working with you. 

this is chess, not checkers.   in my experience growing up in the system, CPS's end goal is to reunify the family.  What are they offering both you and your son as far as classes/ counselling?  They should also be setting up visitation for you (it may be supervised at first that's ok as long as it's a third party and not your dad in the room) as well as longer visits.

[Marianne]

I prayed. I read my bible. I asked a christian for advice. And decided to - finally - practice my faith. As I should have for years and years. And could not bring myself to do. Which destroyed us all.

I did many people wrong. I hurt everybody horribly. I will ask everybody for forgiveness. My kid first. My dad and brothers too.

I will also grant forgiveness. My dad in the first place. And say sorry for not doing that before. He genuinely doesn't see anything wrong in what he did. And I should have long ago stopped reminding him. My own faults were much worse.

I will not fight tomorrow in court. Or after. My unforgiveness did a lot of wrong and kept me and everybody stuck in pain.

[Marianne]

Ok.

That was going back into the fog. Rather than forgiveness. And it did not last long. The lack of repetence makes it hard to forgive.

I did not dare defending my child in court and hate myself for it. And my dad too. For all his mind games.

I decided to tell the cps worker what is wrong. Ask for parallel parenting. So I can focus on my kid and recovery. And fight to get my kid back.

Then if I have enough distance to not be dependent, I can forgive.

[Marianne]

Or. I want to forgive.

But also take a lot of time off to process everything and recover. Because I do not want to reconcile and trust right now.

CPS wants us in systems therapy. But he lies about his flaws. And uses mine against me to gossip and blackmail me into silence. That is no basis for therapy.

[Marianne]

A friend is dying. I still wanted to say something, and could not anymore. He suddenly today was not capable of a normal conversation. I feel very sad. I feel I was not there enough. I did not express enough affection last time, because I was scared.

This also brought me to contemplate my relationship with dad.

I feel drawn to two sides. I want to forgive and heal, and I am so very angry and want to never see him again. He stole my child in a strategical way. On the other hand, my trauma responses (to him stealing my child) made it impossible to care for him. I should have fought for my own side with kid rather than get my dad to cooperate.

Now things are definitive. He has legal rights and manipulated everyone to his side. Even kid. Even if with good intention. But now he has full control and reached all his individual goals...at the cost of all mine...and my mental health. Now he suddenly does want cooperation and family therapy...which he refused for years.

I'm struggling. I feel obliged to forgive. It fits my faith and character. Gives peace of mind.

But...there is no basis...cooperation is not first playing nasty power games to get all you want, then saying you want to work together. Therapy is not first wrecking someone's trust by lying and using all her vulnerabilities against her...then saying you want to talk to restore the relationship.

I understand dad came from fear and pain, and what I did to cause that too.

I do not want him to die without reconciliation. But he wrecked me and all I love, to get complete control. Even if he thought that was best. It still makes trust...hard. 

.

[Marianne]

It just feels so fake.

He said he wanted to first have the legal part settled (= all his individual goals reached). Then do therapy and mediation.

I'm like: you just played me and everyone else to get all you want. At the cost of all I wanted. What exactly is cooperation worth still? Or therapy?

He wrecked my health, the bond with my child and family, raised my kid exactly how he wanted and blocked all I found important.

Now that's all set and done. He wants to work to restore the relationship.

I really feel I should. But also my mind screams: fuck you dad.

[Aingeal]

Kris Godinez (licensed therapist) on YouTube has some great advice/videos about narc exes using the court system and involving/manipulating the kids.  She's also had author Suzanna Quintana (book - You're Still That Girl) on some of her shows.  Suzanna went through something similar to what you're describing. Don't know if this helps but thought I'd send it and a big *hug*

[Marianne]

Thanks! I will read.

Now first I will mourn my friend.

My dad immediately drew it to himself. That it should teach me to reconcile with him, before he would die, and I'd regret it. I think it was well intended. And yet.

It's about my friend today.

[Marianne]

I also realised. I begged my dad to cooperate and do therapy for years. He refused. Now cps is involved and all his goals are reached. He suddenly is all for therapy.

When I refuse...because ey, what use is it still? I will be the uncooperative one.