Sorry...

[Marianne]

Does anybody have words of hope?

I feel so incredibly stupid...clinging to my dad, trying to reach him, despairing...when I should have cut him off, got up no matter what, and fought for my child. I let him wreck my life and steal my kid and isolate me from the family and my kid from my friends. And kept wishing for him to be healed. And our family to be whole. When they just kicked me down, every time I got whole.

I feel plain hatred for my dad. Every time I try to forgive, anger comes back. And self-hatred over letting this happen. 

[DaisyGirl77]

I don't have any words of hope, just trite platitudes people offer up when your world's been destroyed by wildfires and you're left with ashes and smoldering ruins, and faced with the near-insurmountable task of having to rebuild from scratch.

I've been in a similar situation where I had to rebuild myself after deep betrayals from all sides. This is what I did: Therapy. Therapy, therapy, therapy. Allowing myself to feel the fury I had, and doing something physical with it to get it out of my body. I got my hands in the soil (weeding was great in the early days, and growing things came later), cooked and baked, deep cleaned (I've never had my house as clean as it was during that time, lol), and sometimes I just beat up a pillow and screamed into it. I did Reiki, and became a Reiki Master so I could continue work within myself. I journaled all my rage and pain out. I talked about it with trusted friends (not too often because I didn't want to burn them out).

It's been 11 years since I got out of my dad's mom's thumb. I'm still in therapy but I'm not there as often as I was in the beginning. Even now, the rage bubbles up sometimes, but it no longer rules my days like those early months did. I've had people tell me I should forgive. I remain steadfast in my refusal to gift them this. I have let it go, but I will never forgive them for what they did.

Find your version of balance. It'll take time. You're going to slide back into that deepest black hole of rage from time to time but the episodes will eventually slow and you'll be able to kintsugi yourself back together into your new you. Be patient with yourself. Healing is the messiest job you'll ever have.

[Marianne]

Thanks. I will do a lot of that. It is good to know (but sorry for you) that the rage is normal. And will mostly pass.

Im switching. Which is exhausting. I'm angry. Then ashamed of my part. I too did wrong. Then really sorry for dad, seeing his gentle side and him trying (and seeming clueless what he did wrong).

Im terrified God is angry if I go no contact. That he wants me to respect my dad.

[Marianne]

Dad also plays that card.

How I'm angry with him, yet go to church. How I struggle to forgive, and God will not like that. That he is a much better believer. Etc.

[DaisyGirl77]

I'm not the right person to advise you in relation to your religion because I have...baggage.  I will say that there is hypocrisy in your father's words & his deeds, as well as those in relation to your beliefs & the actions of your father.  If you have to respect your father, then it stands to reason that your father should also respect you.  However, his actions show he has no respect for you, has actively & openly harmed you while simultaneously demanding respect (in the form of utmost obedience).  Is that what a loving father is?  Is that what your God has called your father to be?

The switching of emotions is normal.  All of what you're experiencing is.  My advice:  If the court does not require you to be in contact with him, don't.  Drop the rope.  If the court requires you to be in contact, ignore all of his jibes & limit all responses in relation to your child.  That's it.  Ignore all of his gloating, taunting, false attempts to "spiritually advise" you (Why are you taking feedback from one who hurt you???), hostility, & abuse.  Nothing gets past you.  No phone calls.  All are via email or text.  If phone is required, record everything.

But as of this moment, you need to realize that there is no such thing as a father.  Not for you.  He broke it.  His actions are not that of a loving father.  You do not have one.  This is a man who now has control of your son.  That's it.  Keep your head down, do everything you must do to heal yourself, take any & all mandated classes (do optional classes to show your commitment to being a better person/parent), & follow your lawyer's advice to.  the.  letter.  Stop turning to this man for guidance.  He will only do what he must in his interests.  NEVER yours.  Accept it, process it, get therapy for it, & move on as best as you can.  Give him all the rope he needs for he will eventually hang himself for his lies.  Patience & the long game are now in play here.  Good luck.

[Marianne]

Thanks for the wake up call...

I keep on thinking I must be kind to my father. Because I just really do not wish to compromise my own character. And I genuinely see his good side and my bad side too. There's moments he says with genuine feelings, that he wishes there would be a father-and-daughter relationship. Or peace in the family. Or that he may need to do things differently. He seems to mean it. I think the nasty side and the gentle side both are true parts of him. Not pure manipulation.

I am writing an e-mail to the cps worker. They want to have a meeting with the whole family to make a plan together (the scapegoat's dream...discussing with your whole family to make a plan over your kid! ).   

I will pass it by my lawyer. And probably demand parallel parenting (no contact) and therapy for me and my son to rebuild our relationship. And time to become stronger. Before any contact with my dad is possible.

I'm thinking about systems therapy. It is totally unsafe. But may (or may not) give insight into my dad's side of the problem. I just really don't feel like hearing all his lies, and sharing all my vulnerabilities for him to abuse.

I indeed need to just focus 100% to my kid. And see my dad as someone to be totally strategical with. As he is. It just...it is in his nature, but against mine...so it's not working out at all. I have feelings and loyalties and values that prevent being like that.

[Marianne]

Ok.

I struggled with anger again.

I do make the choice to forgive. I must. My faith, my mental health, my child and my dad suffer if I do not. Someone recommended I forgive. And I decide that. Even if my feelings flare up. I will not fight.

I do not immediately reconcile. My family will always think they are perfect and I evil and crazy. And teach my kid that. They manipulate. And it hurts.

I need time to recover. And be strong enough to not lash out or crumble inside if they hurt me or my son.

Forgiveness and reconciliation are two independent things. I will forgive. But trust is not warranted now.

I will take my time. If I am strong enough, I may invite them for a dialogue.

[Aingeal]

If you were not related to him, would you have anything to do with him? I have to think of my narcmom as an "egg donor" to keep the anger at bay.  Narcissists have no empathy and they're  not capable of love, they think of us as tools to be used.  We have no more meaning to them than a pen or any object.

You can do this, don't let him gaslight you.  You feel like you're on the losing end because the narcissist will twist the truth, sprinkle in some lies a rewrite history.  Make notes of conversations because they're famous for denying they ever said something/did something.

The narcissist will put you down and make you feel you are weak - but you're not weak.  They come at you because you are strong and they want to destroy that because it's all about control to a narc. 

There are some lawyers who work pro bono, give free consultations and check the family court, for a "lawyer of the day" to seek free advice (lawyers do these things to give back to the community).  Also the bar association in your state could be very helpful.  The Massachusetts Bar Association has lawyers taking phone calls at 5pm on the first Wednesday of the month to give free advice/discuss any legal problem.  It may be worth it to check resources in your state.

You got this! 

[DaisyGirl77]

I agree with Aingeal.  You're gaslighting yourself into believing your father is better than he is.  You claim he's kind.  How?  Would a kind person do the things he's done?  Would a kind person, at their core, intentionally manipulate situations to get their way?  Would they hurt others as they progress on their life path?  Would they betray others, or stab them in the back to achieve their goals?

No.

The picture you're painting of your father, despite your claims of him being a kind man, is one of manipulation, ambition, greed, selfishness, & his chief aim is to hurt you as deeply as possible.

He achieved this by taking your child.

Your.  CHILD.

Stop resisting the facts.  Stop trying to keep your rose colored glasses on your face.  Stop living in denial.  Stop talking to him like he's still "good".  He.  Is.  NOT.

You feel bad for him.  Okay.  His life experiences that turned him into the person he is today is an explanation.  It does NOT excuse his actions.  Find forgiveness when you're ready.  Not before.  Not on other people's timelines.  IF you decide you need to forgive him in order to move on, do so when YOU are ready.

As for yourself, be kind & be gentle.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Yes, you could've done things differently, but what's done is done.  Take the lessons you've learned from this entire situation & figure out a way to get these terrible emotions (anger, grief, betrayal, pain, self pity, fear, etc.) out of your body.  It is time to protect YOURSELF.  DO NOT, whatever you do, open yourself up to more abuse by your father by sharing even MORE vulnerable things with him.  He has lost the privilege of ALL of you.  What he gets now?  Icy, frozen, robotically civil Marianne.  This new Marianne goes through the motions with your father.  With your child, you're yourself.  Warm, cuddly, loving.  But you CANNOT share ANYTHING with your son because your father now has control.  You now must wait.

Run all communications with CPS, your father, & whatever other entities are involved through your lawyer first.  DO NOT DO OR SAY ANYTHING without your lawyer's approval.  You do not need your communications with these entities used against you in future court appearances.  Be smart about this.

Good luck.

[Marianne]

You are right.

He has a kind side. And I wish I could heal that. But you cannot be both kind and a manipulator driving me crazy and stealing my child. Or you can. If you are fragmented. But overall it makes you a danger to us.

It is just too late to win though.

He spoiled and charmed and manipulated my kid into complete loyalty. And me in utter despair because nobody would believe me and help us. Even I failed to believe me.

He prepared this strategically for years. Decades. He hid evidence of his harms, he collected evidence of me reacting in pain. He groomed my kid. He played the family and cps.

I was so busy keeping myself standing in his games, that I could barely be there for my kid. Let alone fight for him.

I will seek another lawyer. This one is too soft. I will pass all through her. My cps worker is kind. Not a narc. But young and trusting. He will play her.

Did anybody have luck with a psychological test?

[Marianne]

The sad thing is. He genuinely thinks he protects my child from my trauma responses. When my trauma is a response to him. We both did wrong. I should have gotten my emotions under control no matter what.

[Marianne]

Writing that makes me really sad. For all three of us.

Especially since I see him try in his own way. I see him always go to sons soccer...offer him a structured life...be a lot kinder to him than to me...help me with practical stuff...cheer me up and comfort me if he is not in defense mode...tell me genuinely that he wants a father daughter bond...that he hopes for a miracle so I can heal.

I know when I was a child he often had a gentle and calm side.

There is just such emotional incompetence...on his side and mine.

I feel like I have been screaming at a blind man, that he should try harder to see. Screaming his lack of vision is harming all of us. When he is compensating all he can. And my telling him he is failing hurts him and my son too. :-/

[Marianne]

Ok. Weird.

I wrote a similar list of narcissism like behaviour. And suddenly got paranoid of him reading it.

After typing it out I concluded the manipulation was really bad and not kind. And I was indeed gaslighting myself.

And should get myself together for kid real quick.

[Marianne]

Argh. Sorry for rambling. I am making sense of things.

I do think there was love and genuine kindness. I think there also was hatred and manipulation. It was both. Dad felt unsafe and hurt. And from dad did wrong. So did I. I was a fool. And I can understand his unsafety and pain. I'd love for him to understand mine too. But if not. That is his problem.

I decided I will stick to my faith values. I will grant and ask forgiveness. I will be kind. I will be honest. I will try therapy. I may take a period of distance to recover. But after I will try heal us all. I hope it is not too late.

I'm not going to be naive. Dad is a manipulator. Dad hides his vulnerabilities. He was taught so as a young child. Dad collects and uses my vulnerabilities against me. He plays the family. He plays kid. I know. It is his problem. I do not want to compromise my values any longer over that. I will be me. The damage was mainly from me fighting back and becoming a bad person myself. 

I will stop my fight. He won. He has my kid. If I fight, I make it worse for kid. I'm thinking of Solomons Judgement. I do not want to tear him apart in our fight. We teared each other and him apart already. Perhaps we can still heal.

I will aim at recovering and making the very best of the time we still have. I have to swallow my grief and pride.

[Marianne]

I am sorry for all the writings. My brain is broken. I am trying to make a logical story. And I do not have one.

I genuinely thought for 38 years that my dad was a very gentle and calm person. Who would not hurt a fly. He would not protect me against abuse and even defend abusers. But I thought he didn't quite understand.

- Mum was extremely frustrated about him. I always thought he was the victim and her the aggressor. She told
  me it was difficult and I had no idea. I felt she was blameshifting and was pissed off with her.
- He had no real friends. I thought he was introverted.
- He worked alone. He wanted all control. Nobody was good enough. I thought he wanted to do his work well.
- He had a business partner, but they broke up in conflict. He seemed the victim of a crazy and manipulative
  man. He also had fights with some other people at work. But he always seem the poor guy who didn't really
  understand and was taken advantage of.   

I judged these people...especially mum...and now I feel karma is hunting me. Because I tell people it is difficult and they do not know everything. And they tell me I am blameshifting. Because they saw what happened. Me being mean to that poor old cute little grandpa... (who is secretly playing divide-and-conquer with the whole family).

Anyway.

I will distance myself.
I will ask my lawyer to plea with social services to set in parallel parenting. So I can recover.
I will find time to fix my brain and stop going back and forth.
I will aim at being there for kid.
I will also forgive and be correct.

[Marianne]

Sorry for thinking up and down and back and forth. I am angry. And strangely, my friends say I look good. Better. With the light back in my eyes. And a calmer energy.

I distanced from dad. I spoke with my lawyer. I have told dad. And I will plea with CPS for parallel parenting. He will raise my kid in his way on his days. I will raise my kid in my way on my days. I will not agree to mediation and therapy. If it is forced, I will not share a single vulnerability. I just do not want to see him or speak to him. For a year. I will use that year to recover and be there for my child. After this year I will make further decisions. My kid is more important than my dad. 

I feel there will be thunderbolts from the sky to punish me. But I see no other way.

Dad is suddenly all for mediation and therapy. He suddenly says I should go see my brothers, because it is so sad we broke up (oh why would that be?!). He thinks it is very unkind that I distanced myself.

He will surely use it against me. To portray me as uncooperative.

But I begged him endlessly to talk. For years. To do therapy. To do mediation. To stop gossipping to my brothers to drive us apart. He always refused. I said I was suicidal because of the family problems, please dad, please, go to therapy with me. It can save my life, save my kid his mum. He said: no, I will not do what you want.    

He already decided years ago he would raise my child. Under his full control. In his way. And I was "there to do fun things with him". Him and mum strategically worked towards that for years. He hid proof of his abuse. He collected proof of my trauma responses. Manipulated everyone. Played nasty games. Threatened and blackmailed and guilt-tripped and gaslighted. All the while I desperately reached out, and did not think about strategy. Just about healing the family.

Every single time I stood up and was ready to care for kid again, he kicked me down. Literally too. Every single time kid opened up emotionally and sought contact or comfort, he kicked him down.

I allowed that. I should have gotten over the trauma and stood up for my kid. In a better way. The despair was so big, that I did not fight in the right way. I should have trusted God. And worked towards a better situation on my own side...in a silent way...not showing him the slightest weakness. 

But now he has his way. Fully. Everything. At the cost of my life and everything dear to me. At the cost of kids harmonious childhood.

So.

Now he says: let us forget the past. And look to the future. Go in therapy to repair our relationship. And work together.  

He drove me insane. Nearly to suicide. He stole my child. He stole my family, by gossipping for years. He made sure I was isolated from every help, as was kid. He surely thinks it was for the best of my child, to protect him against his crazy mother. But still. He did this in a scaringly precise, planned and manipulative way. 

"Now let us forget the past and talk...?"

You fucking stole my child two weeks ago, dad. And worked towards that for years. Forget?!? Really though?

[Marianne]

Even just the court date. Dad threatened me just before, that I could not talk, or else he would fight me with all he had, and I'd have a major problem. He made sure he'd portray me as a completely incompetent mother, and I would lose my child even more. Threatened he had a lot to use against me. Had everyone set up against me. 

He then denied having ever said that (gaslighted).

I was silent in court. He silenced me. He f*cking silenced me with threats and blackmail. To not stand up for my child.

He won.

Then after, in the hallway, in front of the child protection workers and kid and everyone...he lovingly stroked my cheek and said with comfort in his tone: "oh, this must be so difficult to you".

He never in my life stroked my cheek. It made me sick. To be honest, it just made me sick. If you threaten and blackmail and guilttrip and gaslight me to steal my child...in secret...then keep your hands with you in public. Don't pretend to be a father there. Real love doesn't disappear when nobody is watching. And threats that disappear when people are watching? Those are a very conscious choice.

[Marianne]

I know I also had a share in the problems. And yet, I cannot see him now. I need to recover for my kid. And he blocked that for years. Decades. It is enough.

[Marianne]

Sorry for journalling so much. But my mind has been a mess. And every time I think I figured things out. New things come up.

I decided I will temporarily distance. And give up every hopes of being accepted and seen for who I am in my family. I did wrong. They did wrong. At this point I do not know who is the perpetrator or who is the victim. Because we were all extremely stupid. Spiralling into evermore destructive ways.

What I do know is that I have felt so unsafe with them. And so unloved. For decades really. That I cannot recover. And cannot be there for my kid. And cannot respond in a way that is good for me and dad and kid. And they do not care enough to do even a millimeter of the work to heal us all.

I know healthier behaviours do not work. I tried. It fails. They do all they can to drag me back to unhealthy behaviours. And I'm also so triggered, that I cannot do it anymore.

And I know I have begged them to listen to each other and do therapy. And they refused endlessly. Now dad wants to. But still denies everything and anything that is painful. His childhood trauma, his own limitations, my childhood trauma, the nasty things he did wrong in recent years, the fact that this kept us all stuck in trauma, the fact that he manipulate everyone to steal my child. That makes it a useless exercise. "Dad, this or that scared me"/"that did not happen". That is not going to benefit anybody.

I will distance until I recover. I will be there for kid in the meanwhile. And try really see him. 

I will not fight to have him back. Because it will create havoc for him. Solomons Judgement.

After, I will likely return to a superficially kind relationship with dad. With zero expectations and zero shared reality. Him and the family will just never give up their us-good-you-bad-story. Because at this point they have to admit they nearly drove their kid/sis to insanity and suicide out of spite. And that is not fun. 

[Marianne]

Sorry for journaling.

I quit the codependency with dad today. I feel guilty. Thinking God is angry. But I quit.

I think I was mostly to blame.

Dad has his goal. He wanted to raise kid. In his way. I thought dad should support my goal of healing myself, healing the family and raising my kid. But he did not. Because of my problems, his own loneliness, arrogance, vengefulness. I disagree. But empathise. I was troubled too. I can imagine he felt safer raising kid.

Dad has his methods. He thinks all forms of threatening and manipulating and calculated sneaky working towards his goal are allowed. I think they are not. And openness and cooperation are better. He disagreed.

Dad thinks being a father is sneakily steering all in the right direction and doing practical things. I expect certain emotional things. Communication. Cooperation. Openness.

I should have worked towards my goal in my way. Not done things (eg screaming when he gaslighted me) I disagreed with. And put normal boundaries.

I begged and pleaded and screamed and explained. But that is manipulating too. I wanted him to cooperate and be fair. But you cannot force that.

I should have understood that reality. And acted on that. Myself. On my side. Getting my shit in order - not his.

I now decide to forgive - I did worse.

But distance - his manipulation keeps me ill. It makes it impossible to recover and care for kid. Dad understands that perfectly well. I tried to explain better and better and better, but he knows. He makes this choice. Because it benefits him. I do not want that in my life now. It also leads to me responding in ways that I dislike. I get dragged back into family patterns that I try to break. He now finally wants therapy, after years of me begging, now he reached his goal, but I do not need it anymore. I do not want him to change. He can stay as he is, if he is so content with himself. But I want him out of my life. I'm not trying to fix him anymore. Why would I. He took my mental health and my kid and my family. All important things really. He can stay away. I want myself to change. So I will never allow such a thing anymore. Or respond in abusive ways myself, as I did, rather than walking out.

I will heal myself and be there for my kid and build my life. With honest people around me. Who like me for who I am.

I see my dads loving sides. I see my bigger flaws. I see his reasons. But I have no use for a manipulator in my life.

When I am healed I will reconnect. Because he is my dad.  Accepting that I can not trust him. He will easily backstab me. So I can do a friendly chitchat with Christmas. But not calling him to cry that I feel sad...because he will use that to convince everyone I am unstable and he should have more power.

And I had a part in this. I got so dysregulated that I scared and hurt him. And he rightly worried over kid. That is a good reason. And still he did bad.

He could have solved that by talking honestly and openly.

I will stop being guilttripped into things I disagree with: I will go purely for my goals at cps. Even if I've ruined my chances last year by acting like a fool...despairingly begging dad to please connect.

I will tell them I want parallel parenting. Time to recover. A psychologist. And more time with kid.