It continues.

[square]

Just a new topic since I think I'm close to locked on the old one.

I wanted to say that I am not always responding as fully to comments as I would like. I seem a bit limited on bandwidth right now. There are replies that have been extremely helpful to me even if my reply to it was perfunctory or none at all.

Apartment walkthrough scheduled for Monday afternoon.

DD has been under a lot of stress. There is this, there are midterms, and she has serious concerns about her ability to meet a requirement (not unfounded concerns, I'm afraid). And furthermore new insurance won't cover the inhaler brand she uses and substitutions are causing heart palpitations. However, she has been coping well and not sinking in anxiety, just putting one foot in front of the other and leaning a little harder on her comfort strategies.

H, I don't know. I see some minor signs of mental health stuff, there's some magical thinking. And then he'll seem perfectly sane.

One thing I didn't expect is that for now at least I don't feel afraid. Up until last week I would try to avoid him, because even if I take his ignoring me in stride it's still not great, and I always was running the risk of getting yelled at. But right now I suddenly do not feel the need to hide. He is talking to me and not being that way.

He went to work the days aftervl I told him but today and yesterday he called out. One hopeful thing is that he has started talking about trying to accept this. I don't know if he will but I did feel hopeful about these statements. 

It's hard to figure out how much of what he is saying is true versus how much is distorted thinking. He has basically kind of broken into painting himself black and me white. I don't know if it's just to try to convince me to stay, or if this is revealing something closer to the shreds of his ego. I'm not interested in being sainted, but I don't know if his confessions about seeing what he did wrong are total bull, are sincere but psychotic, or carry a bit of truth. It's not affecting my decisions but naturally I am curious what is really going on in his mind.

I keep in mind if I need to involve anyone for mental health needs. Thus far I have not. As a paranoid hermit, he's really not looking to do therapy or get help. But if he gets to a certain level then I will make that phone call. But again, I'm currently in an odd state of feeling less fear than I have in a long time.

[Rebel13]

Hi square! I was thinking about you while I was away and wow, you have accomplished so much! You are doing great with taking the next step and prioritizing SAVE SQUARE. You are a lovely and wonderful person to be so concerned about your family members, but you get to take care of yourself at least 51%, right? 

I had two thoughts reading through the end of the other thread, and putting them here in case they are useful.

1. GoFundMe -- I know, kind of cringey for an independent problem-solver such as yourself, but I have seen people set them up for causes a lot less difficult and worthy than yours!

2. I know it's super scary to think about spending down your savings, but as another person mentioned, you have been dipping into them a lot anyway to help H and DD. AND, I think, if you didn't have "assets" you might be eligible for more programs. For example, I don't know if your new place is in a HUD/HHS facility, but it sounds like maybe not, since from what I am aware of, the rent for those facilities is 1/3 of a person's income.

Anyway, ignore if not useful. I'm still out here hoping for the best for you, and glad that H didn't immediately freak out on you.

Looking forward to more updates when you have the chance.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Square, that state you describe of being not afraid and able to cope well: That's really great that you can do that. But if I may armchair psychologize (because what are friends for?), you are in the war zone. You're on active duty, ready for the bombs to drop, ready to execute your battle plan and respond according to your training. It's not sustainable long term, but it's nice to know you can handle it without falling apart right now.

I just explained this to my DH when he remarked how calm I was. 

[SonofThunder]

Hi Square.  You wrote:

" One hopeful thing is that he has started talking about trying to accept this. I don't know if he will but I did feel hopeful about these statements."

It's hard to figure out how much of what he is saying is true versus how much is distorted thinking. He has basically kind of broken into painting himself black and me white. I don't know if it's just to try to convince me to stay, or if this is revealing something closer to the shreds of his ego. I'm not interested in being sainted, but I don't know if his confessions about seeing what he did wrong are total bull, are sincere but psychotic, or carry a bit of truth. It's not affecting my decisions but naturally I am curious what is really going on in his mind."

Im glad to read its not affecting your decisions 😊.  My stbx did something very similar and then, when I did not respond positively to her painting herself grey-black, she painted me midnight black after and she's been the outspoken, smearing victim ever since.  I personally believe it's (as you stated) "try to convince me to stay" because of the PD's rapidly upwelling FoA.

#motiveiseverything

SoT

[Lookin 2 B Free]

  More than once after a rupture my PDex would realize "how wonderful" I really was, how mistaken he had been, and how utterly rotten he had behaved toward me.  Unlike you, it did affect my decisions.  Who knows, but I think he really was experiencing what he said he was.   But it didn't matter.  In due time, usually not very long, after we opened ourselves to each other again some unknown something would flip the switch back and I'd be black again and he'd be a victim.  It took a while for me to realize that was how we would always end up.
 
So glad you're onto that already, Square, and taking care of yourself.   

[NBRiverGuy]

Square. You have been such a huge help to me and I wish that I could offer you some advice. It sounds like you are moving in the right direction. I will offer this. W used to paint herself black and me white when she first started therapy. I consistently reminded her that relationships are a two-way street and there is no "fault" for anything. Just stuff that we can both work on to make it stronger. She has done a 180 since then and I think that she is using the therapy to reinforce her negative thinking rather than listening to what the therapist is actually saying. Ex. Conversation-
W: His mother knows that I like a certain brand of coffee creamer. She used to buy it for me before we came in town to visit, but now she doesn't because she doesn't care about me. (Real conversation, btw)
Therapist: I can understand how you might interpret it that way.
W: My therapist said that I'm right and that I should be angry.
I thought the therapy was helping at first, but I think it might be backfiring as her condition worsens. Maybe it will at least help your husband get through the initial phase of the separation. 

[square]

Thank you all, I've reflected on every reply.

I guess I truly am done because even if I consider staying, the answer is NO. I'm not tempted. Even though I don't even know if I can make it work. Even though it could be a huge mistake, staying is a bigger mistake. NO.

I really have to say I have no idea what H is thinking. He certainly is taking this seriously but he may ultimately be seeing this as a bluff that he can turn around.

He's angry at the universe because about a week prior he had started trying to research ways of improving a marriage, and apparently feels that if he had just a few more weeks he could have turned it around. Uh huh. Lots of weirdness in there, including a total lack of understanding of how severe, wide reaching, and long lasting the issues were. What could ye have done in a few extra weeks, bought me flowers and taken me out on a couple of dates? We are far, far, far beyond that.

And also, it's this mentality that he is so unlucky, the universe is out to get him. Poor guy was working on it and got screwed when the clock suddenly ran out!

I think he maybe understands on some level or another that the yelling and name calling and mocking and trying as hard as he can to verbally destroy me was not great. ButbI think he thinks I engaged in that too, maybe less but still he thinks I tried to hurt him. Evidence? Because he felt hurt.

I did tell him that he needed to compare our behaviors, not just ask if he felt hurt. I gave him an example and he appeared go be struck by it. But I know if he had any epiphany at all, it would be forgotten almost immediately.

So we are a couple who are facing imminent separation after many cold and painful years. Counter to ordinary expectations, we have laughed together more in the last week than for I don't know how long. Minus the mental illness, we are well suited for each other.

I wish we could remain friendly. I could do that. But I think he will not be able to. I think everything is centered around me staying, that he feels him acting a certain way should have certain results.

Monday is coming fast. Assuming nothing unexpected happens, I will shift into gear then. A better person than me would already be packing and making arrangements. Well, it's only a few more days lost at this point so I will give myself a break.

DD has been having ongoing health problems including ER visit. I can't entirely rule out stress as a cause but she thinks it's not and I agree as the timeline doesn't match. The last two days have been an improvement but symptoms definitely remain. She has an appointment for some tests... DECEMBER 18. Health care is a real problem.

[bloomie]

square - I keep imagining you and DD enlarging the space around yourselves. Safe space. Peaceful space. Loving space. Co-oppertive space. Creative space. Space you can reestablish self trust in your ability to provide and thrive. I hope, if you are able, you will dream along with me. 

Trust that DD's health challenges will settle and you will get good insights as to what she needs going forward.

Keep sharing as you are able. You are in my thoughts and prayers!

[square]

Thank you, Bloomie.

Apartment showing is tomorrow. Am nervous about a few things. The big one is DD.

When I first told her, she was unhappy at first but when I told her where the place was, she reacted with some positivity and mused at length about some good possibilities, like having friends over, being able to learn to cook, etc. While I did not interpret this as her being totally happy about it, I thought she at least had some potential feelings of acceptance.

DD doesn't like to talk about certain types of things, like sadness or other deep and personal feelings. Neither of us brought up this subject after the initial conversation until I mentioned the appointment. She reacted quite negatively.

I said very calmly "I know you have mixed feelings about it, but I thought there were some aspects you felt okay with." She said, "no, I was just being polite."

DD is capable of miming some politeness, but she is quite authentic in her expressions. She really is not the type to fool anybody into believing she feels a different way than she does. Polite for her is keeping her mouth shut while scowling, lol. So I'm confused and stressed about it.

It's a human trait for our feelings to fluctuate, so I think her initial feelings settled to dread.

She was upset with me earlier about something else, then apologized (wow) and said she was stressed about the viewing. And said she did not want to go and that I should have someone else take me.

I had already asked the only other person but she is busy. So I told DD it was okay and I'd just Uber. DD was not comfortable with that and wanted me to ask H. Long story short, she decided she'll "suck it up" and take me, and I've told her she can change her mind and I'll go alone and that's fine.

I do want her to go because I'm hoping seeing it might also help, but maybe I'm crazy for hoping that.

As for H, he appears to have shifted toward acceptance. It took him a while to ask any questions that I would have asked much earlier, but he has now asked every question except one (has not been curious where the apartment is, not even what town).

He's broached the subject of dividing furniture and has offered to do the move. I considered this and accepted and do appreciate it.

But as part of the acceptance, he has also withdrawn. Can't blame him. I'd be crazy to think we were just going to be besties again while I move out. But I did enjoy the few laughs we had, even if they were just him trying to get me back.

With DD saying she wants nothing to do with this, I feel a bit knocked back.

I also worry for DD as she is having a health issue. I keep wondering how much is stress, but symptoms started several days before I told her. For sure it's not helping, though. And she has another big stress related to school. I hate this but could not control the timing. I see her coping kind of like I have, just sort of compartmentalizing.

[square]

Did the walkthrough. The place is absolutely ideal. It's a lovely unit and it's obvious that the management is great, unlike so many places run by soulless profiteers. Not just going by their words, but they have all these projects to make the place great, and clearly felt pride when I mentioned the place was well run.

DD ended up taking me but she has clearly separated herself from the whole thing. When we were done I asked her if she had any thoughts and she said "nope, it's not my apartment."

At the same time, she did clearly think the place was nice. But like she was just tagging along for a friend who was looking.

So next is the paperwork, which I'm nervous about because that's the commitment. While I've obviously affected things, my husband would gladly take me back and I can still undo this. I want to go but it's just scary, not knowing if I can make it work, and knowing it'll be hard for DD. And, you know, even after everything, it's hard ending the relationship.

[Rebel13]

Hang in there square! That feeling of teetering on the precipice of a huge decision is so scary! I'm looking ahead to a possible change of life direction and have managed to be pretty positive about it, but having a tougher time today, so I know how that feels. I also know it's constantly changing. I'm sure you're going to have tons more feelings as things progress.

Same for your daughter. This is a huge change in her life, her parents splitting up. I can see where it would be hard for her to see that as a good thing, just because it's a complete unknown for her, and she probably feels torn between what is best for each of her parents. Hopefully over time, as she experiences having a safe, clean place to visit should she want to, and as she sees how you grow and change, and as she has more of her own life experiences, she'll understand why you're doing this, and that it was the right thing for you, even if it isn't what your husband would wish for.

Thinking of you and sending you good thoughts!!

[bloomie]

square - how wonderful to be reassured by the walk through that this is a lovely place to start anew.

My take on your DD's response is that she is releasing you to make this decision and at the same time possibly letting you know she is independent of the decision. That seems really healthy from here.

Something that helps me sometimes when my legs start to wobble around a huge life change and decision is to imagine if I didn't make the difficult move what would my life be like in a year...

[square]

Thank you, Rebel. Yes, no doubt it's hard for her to see anything good in her family breaking up. She feels extremely attached to her home and parents and hates change. One good thing is that H will aintain the home so she keeps her room and everything, and I checked the map and the house and apartment are 0.3 miles apart, which means going between them is almost nothing.

Bloomie, yes, it's a very healthy and mature response from her. I hope time will settle things.

I feel really sad about leaving H, which probably sounds crazy. I have not been able even for a fraction of a second even once to see H as one person (since things went bad). So I still very much care for H1 while I never want to see or even think about H2 again. But I know H1 and H2 share the same body even if I can't see them as the same person, and I can't keep H1 without H2. I wonder if I'm "splitting" the same way PDs do.

I'm moving forward because I know I'd regret forever not taking this opportunity.

I also think of my mom's bff who was married to a mentally ill man and wanted to leave but never did. She passed away and never got unstuck. I live her husband, he is ill but a kind man. But so ill their lives fell apart with his extreme nonfunctioning and hoarding. Anyway, I know I would regret staying. Will I regret leaving? Unknown, but I know I'll regret staying.

[NBRiverGuy]

Minus the mental illness, we are well suited for each other.

That's the hard part. When we get along, we get along GREAT. Like best friends. But, those gaps of time when we get along have been narrowing over the years as her emotional triggers have increased. Now, I'm just happy for any peaceful moment that I can get, but I can't truly enjoy her company because I know that it's just a matter of time before the other shoe drops and I am just focused on not setting her off.

[Rebel13]

Anyway, I know I would regret staying. Will I regret leaving? Unknown, but I know I'll regret staying.

Isn't that the kicker? It's so hard to step into the unknown! To say, I'm sick of the devil I know, and trust I'll be able to manage the devil I don't, one thing at a time. Hugs today square!

[SonofThunder]

square - how wonderful to be reassured by the walk through that this is a lovely place to start anew.

My take on your DD's response is that she is releasing you to make this decision and at the same time possibly letting you know she is independent of the decision. That seems really healthy from here.

Something that helps me sometimes when my legs start to wobble around a huge life change and decision is to imagine if I didn't make the difficult move what would my life be like in a year...

Square, so glad to read that you are certain about leaving.  Turn the unknowns to knowns, one step at a time. 

SoT

[square]

Big problem. DD is falling apart.

She's suffering from palpitations. Migraines she can barely function with. We took her to the ER recently, followed up with doc, now I have to make another doc appt.

H asked her if she wanted food last night and she said she couldn't eat because of stress. She went to class this morning only because she had a prescription pain pill to stem the migraine and a prescription anxiety pill.

I'm going to try to talk to her later but she tends to shut down. She gets very rigid and unflexible in her thinking.

I am feeling like, how can I do this to her? And I know everyone says she'll adjust but I've seen her fail to adjust before. She eventually left high school having failed to adjust to it. We tried and tried but ultimately she homeschooled the last part.

The program she's in now will be hard for her. It's going good now but it's just prerequisites. I'm not being dramatic when I say stress and anxiety could derail her. And again, I've seen her not adjust before.

I haven't decided to pull the plug but I admit I'm wavering. H said "are you sure you want to do this" and I pushed back on him hard. He is not going to pull this on me. But that's separate from DD falling apart.

[escapingman]

Square

You are not going to be able to be there fully for your DD unless you save yourself. Stay and you will all sink with your H.

Don't give up!

[NBRiverGuy]

I like the airline analogy. If the oxygen mask falls, they always tell you to put on your mask first and then put on your child's mask. Why? Because if you've passed out, you can't take care of your child. I think this applies to every area of life.

[bloomie]

square - as hard as this is to see your DD going through my hope is your will stay the course. Part of your DD's own journey is working through the reality that is before her and the emotional response that brings up. 

Your moving forward allows her a chance to see you are still there for her, with her, even if you live 0.3 miles away.

You are not doing 'this' to her. From where I sit your are doing this 'for' both of you. You are making a decision to build a peaceful, ordered, predictable home life around yourself and her. A safe haven for both of you.