Leaving the guilt behind and moving on

[hhaw]

Your poor children, EM.  They're unable to protect themselves and you.  What protection is available comes in the form of placating the stbx..... and that's at everyone's expense.  I know it guts you.  I understand.  Remember...... feeling as though your nose is on any negative pebble limits your ability to  be responsive.  It traps you in reactivity and survival mode where logic and problem solving skills are shut down.

Restoring access to higher thinking is about getting your nose off the dark pebbles.... creating spaciousness around them so you can see the entire field again.  You have to breathe your way there or something... you can't think your way out of that.

I guess I'm saying....... sometimes it's impossible to calm ourselves down when around the stbx.... and so we resist reacting.....we sit with the misery and discomfort we're in so we avoid DOING something we regret.  We do what we can to restore our ability to think THEN we plan, act or do what's next on the list. 

Any outbursts with the PD will create more confusion and chaos in a very confusing situation, but you already know this and I'm glad you're moving yourself OUT of that precarious position. 

Your children are prisoners of war right now.  Please try not to take their cruelty personal..... do try to observe what they're doing, take good notes so you can show the court a timeline, actions and responses...... good notes are better than 2 litigants pointing fingers with ZERO evidence, IME.  Shift into observer mode as you can....... you want to be in a position to speak about the sitution with healing in mind, IME.

Resist pointing fingers and simply state facts without emotion, as you can.  Judgment limits the effectiveness of your notes, IME.

When your PD states you've raised your voice and the children back her up....... you'll be in a position to admit you did and explain why..... why you're filing is bc you're at the end of your rope, can no longer cope with X, Y and Z behaviors and are seeking divorce in order to get every family member help........ including the PD,bc you love her and she's the mother of your shared children.

Your posture in this will be important, particularly if this escalates to calling the police or mental health crisis services. 

Always always be able to lay your hands on your evidence and find what you need quickly.  Never allege anything you can't prove and keep taking notes with dates, times and details...... it's important, IME.

Things will get better, EM.  You have to stay strong and get your focus back over and over again, bc it will come and go. 

Learning to STOP the STBX from taking and keeping your focus is important.  You can't do that if you aren't aware it's happening, so be gentle with yourself, be curious, practice decompressing and drop all judgment,bc it helps you stay responsive, IME.  Notice how you're feeling.... how your feeling IN your body......keep breathing and trust you're heading to the exit.

Stay strong and when you can't, it's OK.  You'll recover and get back on track, over and over again.... and it's OK.

[escapingman]

Interesting observation that by me just failing my MC and GR just a bit this week, STBX was back at her old tricks. It's like everything just went out of her head and everything she clearly has been bottling up came out. I have been observing her behaviour and yesterday I stepped out completely just watched her. I have known for a long time, but this time I really saw how disordered she is. Nothing me or the kids does matters, everything and I mean everything depends on how she feels inside, and that shifts several times an hour. I have no chance to try to time any of my plans or actions with where she is in her mood, it shifts so fast. I have come to the conclusion that I don't hate her, I love her in some way but the love is mostly artificial as the person I love doesn't exist. But what I know is that whatever I feel for her, for my own sanity and mental health, I can't live with her. I also need to create a safe place for the kids. But to the real problem, I still don't know how to play this. I really don't think she is emotionally capable of looking after the kids, even at part time, especially if she needs to look after herself and work. I cannot see her managing it, without taking it out on the girls. But, she is a master of manipulations so she would convince anyone she is fine and that I am the problem. I have my evidence, my recordings etc. But initially I am sure the kids would side with her, that's what they have been programmed to do. I wouldn't even put it past GC to lie to the police if she was interviewed.

So the real question is, do I move out on my own and fight the battle from a distance. Save myself first and then try to save the kids. Or do I stay and fight from home, trying to protect the girls, but risk drowning in this drama. I am pretty sure I already know the answer and that is leave now, but I am so scared leaving the kids behind. And before anyone say it, they won't come with me, at least not GC and at least not until I have a proper home which will take some time to get. 

The further out the FOG I am the sicker I can see she is. How could I fall for this for so long?

[Poison Ivy]

Put on your own oxygen mask first, by moving out and proceeding with the divorce. Your children appear to be physically safe when with your spouse, and although her treatment of them isn't ideal, the situation also isn't ideal when you're all together and the tension is high. Let the children know that they can contact or come to you whenever they want and that you are always available.

[hhaw]

EM:

When healthy boundaries are lacking, it's not difficult for good times to slowly shift into fewer good times shifting into bad times shifting into worse.

It starts with small boundary transgressions.  If one doesn't know how to set healthy boundaries and hold them...small boundary transgressions turn into larger ones leading to trauma bonding and the cycle of placating and enabling becomes the relationship. 

The stbx was good enough, long enough she could get away with anything, bc you weren't likely raised with healthy boundaries.  I know I wasn't.  Things begin to slide sideways and we don't recognize it as a boundary transgression so things slide further and further into toxic relationship, ime.

Accepting the woman you married wasn't the woman you thought she was is important.  She didn't exist and that's unfortunate, but don't beat yourself up. She was lovely and lovely to be with in the beginning, but it was false.....it was what you wanted it to be, I think.

You're learning about boundaries now and you'll model them for your children..... you'll teach what you learn.

Worrying isn't productive.

What can you do today to move toward your goal?

Maybe the SG will want to leave with you.  Maybe taking her would be safer for both of you.  I'm not sure, but she's more likely to speak the truth to people IF she knows she can find protection and not be left to fend for herself with GC and stbx, imo.

Having GC choose to go with you is information.  You aren't a monster or an abuser.....GC feels safer with you than her mother.

Please let both girls know you love them always and forever, no matter what.  Let them know they don't have to choose between mom or dad.....they shouldn't be involved in the adult trouble at all and it's wrong if anyone asks them to.

Where will you go tomorrow?  Will you leave the house before stbx is served with divorce?

[Joga]

Hi EM,
I feel your pain coming through your posts. I agree with hhaw that you need to put your own oxygen mask on first. You need to get to a clear space—a sanctuary away from the crazymaking—so that you can be an oasis for your daughters. I am rooting for you.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your support.

I don't know exactly when to execute the plan, I need to talk to the solicitor. I believe it will  be a couple of days from filing to STBX receiving the paperwork in the post. What to do surrounding the actual filing is my current struggle, I have done much of the work required but have a little bit left to organise. Right now I am still suffering a bit from a cold and feel a bit under the weather, I need to wait until I feel better, I really can't do this when I am not feeling at my best physically. I have my evidence, recordings, I have backed up all my electronic data, I know what kind of home I can afford, area, size etc. The only real issue is to take a decision about my physical items, should I just sacrifice them, or get them to storage? Then following filing, should I leave, or is it a chance she would leave when she gets the paperwork? How she reacts is unpredictable, completely unpredictable. However, I am going to speak to solicitor, ask for all the paperwork to be created and then have her ready to file when we agree to file, that could be any day. At least I am crystal clear in my mind about what I want, she won't be allowed to stop me this time.

[hhaw]

EM:. I wouldn't worry about stuff.... At least not things I could replace.  Make  family heirlooms and cherished possessions safe.  Maybe rent a storage unit or leave them with a friend you trust.  Put small things in the trunk if your car.  Take pictures of the items in your home and make a list of the things you want to take.

A judge will want the children in a familiar home with their lives in tact....routines too.  I don't know if a Judge will put you in the family home with the kids or your stbx.  I assume you'll be asking  for that in your divorce complaint, based on your evidence?

Based on your evidence, what is your attorney and domestic violence advocate saying about your chances of  that?

IF stbx threatens suicide after you file, an evaluation would take her out of the home while getting her some outside support......you and the kids will have a moment to breathe and recover while she's gone.

The court would have more information to base a decision around who keeps the kids in the family home.  You need the court tomorrow understand what you and the children are living with, ime.

[escapingman]

The "normal" outcome in this country is a 50/50 split of all assets and then I think default is 50/50 time with the kids with more time normally given to the mother. My solicitor told me we probably would have to sell the house, split it 50/50 then come to an agreement about the children and possible alimony. I don't think either of us would want to stay in the house post divorce, but I could be wrong.

Right now, I just need to get back to feeling my best and then get this ball rolling. As soon as I file the clock starts ticking, not before.

[Poison Ivy]

There are usually minimum time limits in divorces, that is, there must be at least x numbers of days between the filing and the divorce being finalized. Every day you wait to file extends the time until you can be a single person again.

[square]

If she threatens to harm herself, the kids, or you, call 999 or whatever your emergency number is.

Be mentally/emotionally prepared to do that ahead of time.

Also, you likely will want to physically wait outside the house after calling. So the situation is not further escalated. Or if she comes outside the whole neighborhood can watch, that's okay too. Get ready to have icewater in your veins.

If she goes after you, remove yourself physically - walk away. Put your hands up to protect yourself if need be. Video her asap - and let her see it.

If she blocks your exit, video her then calmly and firmly say you are leaving and she needs to step aside.

If you have absolutely no options left, mive her with the absolute minimum force. Ideally using no hands, just moving into the space you need to move into then moving away immediately, hands protecting your head if need be.

If you are audiorecording only or you can no longer control the video to show her in frame, narrate everything. "I'm going to the door, you need to step aside." "You're hitting me and you need to stop. No, you are the only one hitting anybody. I'm trying to leave."

Get it practiced in your head.

[hhaw]

Remember everything yu say will be considered, EM.

How you say it.... no one likes snarky people, sarcastic people, snide people, threatening, intimidating or screaming people. 

Everyone appreciates people who de escalate and talk about shielding the children.

You want to be the guy the Judge trusts to keep the children safe AND support the stbx to be the best mother she can be to those girls.... even though stbx is struggling with emotional issues. 

Attorneys seem to be completely void in practical advice for navigating divorce with a PD and children involved, IME PLUS the nons are typically lacking in outside support systems and people they trust to be witnesses and help make a good plan.... keep the non on track, etc. 

I'm sorry this is so hard, EM, but you have lots of people sharing their experiences with you.  I hope you can avoid making some of our mistakes.  I hope you remain the calm, steady and consistent parent the judge wants the children to have in their life.  Remember, Judges assume ever litigant is a lying, exaggerating combatant.  it takes a minute for the PD's lies to unravel and for all your statements to be proven true....THEN the Court gets it.

So..... don't ever lose hope or stop making the best choices you can,bc nothing the PD does will end this.  You'll always be able to respond, eventually, and prove your case. 

Remember that when you're overwhelmed and in survival mode...... you always get a chance to SHOW the court the truth.  just bc the PD SAYS something or screams and writhes in pretended victimhood doesn't mean she can prove it....if you don't do something to draw negative attention, chances are you can prove your case pretty quickly.

It's when we DO things.... when we react to the PD's insanity that we end up sabotaging ourselves in court.

You really need to show up for yourself and your kids here.  YOU can make good choices the entire way, knowing the PD will do everything she can to bait and make you look like the unhinged parent.

Don't let her bait you, EM.

Do what Square and Poison Ivy said and prepare to make that call to the hospital or emergency services to report threats.... be prepared to TELL your story based on your evidence and keep it short.  Be prepared to deal with PD violence and threats and assaults..... and keep your cool while doing it. 

I really wish there was more real life support to help make the transition INTO divorce court with less risk when PDs are involved. 

Have you spoken to the domestic abuse advocates lately? if so, what are they saying about filing and leaving?

[escapingman]

She has completely lost the plot now. The kids did a sibling squabble again this morning, this is becoming closer to bullying as it is always GC starting teasing SG (expecting backing from STBX). So after GC escalated and started screaming at SG calling her names etc SG had enough and grabbed her arm leaving a scratch mark. I decided to stay away to see how STBX would handle this, I also know that if I get involved I would be the one shouted at. So STBX first accused GC, correct in my mind, but instead of trying to calm the situation and tell GC why she had done wrong and then move on to tell SG off for the physical attack, she locked herself into the bathroom and gave GC the silent treatment for 10 minutes. GC stood banging on the door begging for her to talk but she refused. Then it escalated again between the kids as GC screamed at SG blaming her for everything, ending up with STBX in the end coming out of the bathroom telling GC as if they suddenly were best friends that she is having the same problem (she is the mum FFS). Then of course STBX and GC gangs up together on SG until she gets a panic attack and STBX confiscate SG's phone telling her she wont have it today. SG go full meltdown, she needs the phone to call us after school when we pick her up. This is when I have to enter this and tell STBX to give her the phone, this then gets even uglier as now GC complains as when her phone is confiscated she wont get it back (I use to take her phone for an hour in the evening when she is home when she has been badly behaved). SG gets the phone in the end and STBX tells SG she will never speak to her again and she can fend for herself from now on. I then took SG to school and she sat shaking in the car as she was panicking so much.

This is child abuse.

She needs locking up.

I just email my solicitor regarding filing.

Considering booking a hotel for the week for me and SG.

[hhaw]

I wonder what would happen IF you took SG to the school counselor and chatted with them about the situation, how SG is having panic attacks and suffering.  SG NEEDS a therapist, support, protection and a way to make sense of what's happening to her, IME.  The more support, the better, IMO.

Also, I wanted to remind you to treat any really stupid question asked of you.....
AS AN OPPORUNITY TO EDUCATE THAT PERSON.

Speak in a level tone.  Give ONLY the burger when listing details.... resist giving the lettuce, tomato, condiments and bun.  Just the burger, right?  Like you're speaking to a young child or a bird.  Simple.  Short and calm. 

My heart hurts for SG.  My Mama Bear instincts want her to get some help immediately.  Maybe the school counselor or domestic violence advocate crisis intervention....... person?  I don't know what's available there. Heck, I couldn't find resourses here when I needed them.  Perhaps telling her story to the school counselor.... a compassionate listener with no dog in this fight, will help SG feel heard  and validated right now.

Remember to keep your cool, EM.  Breathe.

[escapingman]

Thanks hhaw. Just spoke to solicitor, we are filing tomorrow. I am also allowed to take SG and stay in a hotel if needed.

Wish me luck.

[Poison Ivy]

You can do this, escaping man. Good luck!

[Boat Babe]

Do it. And good luck. Keep your eye on the prize.

[square]

My suggestion is you *ask* GC if she would like to come, too.

And just let whatever no she gives roll right off. Just say ok and move on.

It will hurt her for you to draw the team lines.

[hhaw]

EM:

Taking SG to a hotel sounds like a necessary move to me.

Bless your attorney for taking the time to address your crisis and steer you towards relief you won't be punished for.

I'd still take SG to see the school counselor so they can support her during this stressful time....and serve as compassionate witness..... she needs advocates.  The more the better, IME.

I can't tell you how relieved I am to read SG will be protected for now, though it's not clear how you'll get clothing and necessary items for you and SG from the family home.  Maybe you won't.  Maybe you know the stbx will be out for a while and will do it then?

Good luck, of course.  I'm so proud of you.

[feralcat]

Hi EM. I'm sorry that it had to get to a point where you had to get away, but I /we all know how difficult it is to break free. Easier said than done, especially for  someone so obviously caring.
Good luck.Stay strong.
I hope SGs school can provide support as well.

[JustKeepTrying]

escapingman,

I am sending you peaceful thoughts, courage, and support from afar.  You have difficult days in front of you but I know you want what is best for you children.  That single determination to provide them a peaceful home will in the long run be their anchor.

I agree with the above statements about offering GC the option.  From personal experience, those first few years with my kids were really rocky as they processed their emotions and tried to find their new normal.  We are finding our way back to each other now and I am grateful we are.  I tried to be the ballast in the whirlwind of my xOXPDh.  I admit I was not always successful but in the end, we all got there.

I will keep you in my prayers.