Struggling with the New Me - Part 3

[Hopeful Spine]

I spent Saturday doing a brain dump.  Just a huge word document summarizing my life.  I wrote the things I don't like, the things I do.  It took a couple hours but I made a gameplan.  One I'm happy about.  I was feeling a bit out of sorts because the friend I went on vacation with didn't reply to a text.  Then, instead of chatting with me, she dropped something off at my house while I was gone.  I felt like I was being too sensitive but it also felt like maybe she was avoiding me.  I worried I ruined things by confiding things to her.  It took a lot to keep my emotions in check.  Later I learned that she had some family stuff that was keeping her too busy.  A lesson to not read into things on my own.  To believe that I'm trusting the right people.

My husband has been different lately.  Stressed and being dismissive.  He really hurt my feelings on Sunday.  I'm trying hard to cut him slack but I also want to stick up for myself.  I'm not sure where the line is but I'm certain it will appear soon.

In light of these difficulties I'm happy to report that I've been reading up on Narc behavior.  Today I identified it easily and succeeded.

The woman I previously said "no" to, called my business and wanted me to do something.  It's an easy and fun project so I'm doing it.

1. I cringed when I saw her name on the caller id.  Braced myself and answered everything cheerfully.

2. The comments

"So . . . how was your time away?  Where did you go? (she knew I travelled a considerable distance)
"Oh. Really?" (feigning boredom as she has traveled extensively in her past)
"Was it even worth the big bucks to get in?"  (I went somewhere expensive and special and she's pretending I wasted money)

When I assured her that yes, it was well worth the money and listed the fun things we did she sort of did her usual thing:

"Oh. Okay? Well. Great for you."

She was dismissive at everything I said. Not at all interested in anything. She tried to cut off my sentences.  You know how it is sometimes in a conversation when you sense people might not care about what you are saying.  But they are polite about it and make efforts to genuinely participate in the conversation anyway?  I've experienced this on both ends and it's okay.  It's not a great conversation but you maybe learn something or you can move onto other things that you both enjoy.  This woman did NOT want ME to talk.
Especially since I was saying positive things. She was trying to end my words so she could get to the reason of the call.

And then

"Well, I'm just glad you were able to FINALLY get away."  (as if I live a pathetic life and this was a highlight I'd been pinning over).

3. Finally - The request (which I happily took down the details) and the dismissal.  She couldn't wait to end the call.

I'm posting about this - so it DID bother me on some level.  But it feels more like a victory.  I got through that call and I feel happy and good.  Annoyed but amused.  And not likely to complain about to anyone other than you lucky strangers on a forum.     This feels hugely different from how I felt the last time.

[Hopeful Spine]

I have been feeling a better sense of calm lately.  Like most people, I like to feel satisfied, needed, appreciated.  The problem is that I previously needed great amounts of these accolades, from others, to feel secure.  As such, I worked very HARD to inspire others to express their feelings of love and appreciation for me.  When people didn't deliver I'd spiral.  And work harder.  Then harder yet.  Always feeling empty.  I thought I was doing things for others and they didn't appreciate me.  Turns out I was doing things for myself and expecting them, as pawns, to give me what I wanted.

So at the beginning of this whole journey I stopped.  And that was the hardest work of all.  It's taken me years to learn how to just "stop".  I'm still learning.  At least when I invested extreme efforts into other people I'd be rewarded with crumbs.  And I was busy all the time.  I was around people all the time.  When I "stopped" - people forgot me and I received zero feedback.  When you rely on that feedback - your self esteem isn't really your own.  Rebuilding on an honest level is hard.

I stopped with my in-laws.  No more interest, efforts or even warm kindness.  Just the sort of polite reserve that you'd extend to total strangers in line at Target.  Except I'm actually very friendly and kind to people on the street, behind a register or anyone handing me a napkin.  So it was very hard to not even be that to family. But I am rewarded now in that I only feel small twinges of sadness when I learn I've been excluded or I know that I don't have favor with them.  I feel incredibly blessed that my one sister in law finally gave me the apology I desperately needed.  It released me and ended a chapter of trying, wishing and wanting.  It is over.  It is done.  Perhaps someday I will be friendly with them again.  Until then - polite.

It's still hard to stop investing in my mother-in-law.  She is a "nice" person who seems saintly.  Her family largely disregards her, only including her when it's appropriate.
Her husband disrespects her - boldly.  It's hard to realize that I was once like her, giving and giving and then turning around with resentment. 

She goes over and above, helping her son (my husband) with his business.  This woman is working her ass off and he appreciates her.  But she's overly inserting herself into our lives.  She's using us so that she can feel good.  So that she will be included.  So that she will feel important.  She says that she "loves" to help with menial tasks and insists on doing the grunt work.  But she pouts when she's not included in other ways.  She complains about others often.  She throws pity parties.  I have the uneasy feeling of not liking a person who does a great deal for me.

Everything she does irritates me and I can see now - how I probably (very likely) irritated others.  This is exactly how I operated.  I cringe to think of how I must have appeared to my in-laws.  It's not a wonder why they held me at a distance and eventually (by some) avoided me.  I hope someday to sort out the truly PD people in the family so I can rebuild honest relationships with some and hold kindness for others with boundaries.

I think about my mother-in-law often.  I want her to change.  She needs to change, in my opinion.  But my next goal is to STOP judging her and to START giving her validation in other ways.  Right now I am short with her and ask leading questions to try to make a point.  But it's not kind and not really helping the situation.  Maybe I'm not ready to lead yet.  Maybe I still need to "stop".  I just want her to feel good at this stage in her life.

Recently I had the pleasure of meeting with friends for coffee and having honest feelings of joy to see them.  When a mutual friend (more mine than theirs) popped in, I was so happy to be sitting at a table of woman who all said, "please, join us!"  These are the kind of woman I want to be around.  Those who are real, who care about me as much I do about them.  Woman who have their own lives, other friends and people they care about.  Woman who allow me to have my quirks and respect the things in my life.  Woman who include others warmly. 

Recently another friend had surgery.  The old me would have texted a few other people and would encourage them to reach out to her.  Maybe I'd coordinate a gift or a card.  Or I'd make it a group effort and arrange for lunch to be delivered for all of us if the patient was willing to have us.  I would have loved setting it up and I'd be waiting for the praise to come.  I'd be wanting to feel "good", caring, thoughtful, "the best".

But this time - I just reached out to my friend and asked when I could visit.  I brought a plant.  I cheered her up.  We caught up.  And I went home.  She texted me later to thank me and I felt happy that my friend was happy.  The point wasn't to feel good about myself - but I did.  With very little fanfare.

I celebrated a special private victory last night.  I went out with two friends to do something I really enjoy.  One friend picked me up and we traveled to the other friend.  Then we all left together.  After a fun night we dropped off one friend and then it was just me and the other friend alone for a few miles. 

The old me would have made a comment or two about the other friend.  Just an off comment about how she over-talked something, or how she was funny about leaving the tip at the restaurant.  The comment wouldn't be for drama.  It would be just a little nudge for the other friend to agree with me and we'd "bond" over our thoughts about how the other person behaved sort of badly.  Then I'd say, "yeah, but she IS a great person."  Always the other person would agree.  And I would feel good.  We were all good people, but me and her would be just a littler better, right?  Ending with a little bit of positivity would have made me feel "okay" about manipulating the other person to agree with me and fill my cup. 

Yikes.  I might not have been a true "mean girl", but I was certainly not a healthy one.

It's a real victory for me to look forward to and genuinely enjoy a night out with other women.  And then, on that final leg home, to chat about how great the other friend is.  To rehash the fun night before she dropped me off.  To return home and tell my husband, "it was a blast".  To not lay in bed thinking of things to tell him to manipulate him into thinking I was a better person than them.

I have a lot more growth ahead of me.  I'm scared of some of the things I will need to tackle soon.  But I'm winning.  Slowly, I'm winning.

[Hopeful Spine]

Releasing some anxiety about saying "no". 

A sister-in-law who rarely pays attention to me sent me a very breezy, fun text.  Guess what!?!  She needs help creating a senior sports poster for her kid. 

I don't want to do it.  It's my skill set.  I am the best person to help her.  But I'm overloaded at the moment.  Plus, not having children, these sorts of projects make me sad.  Plus I know I will feel especially sad when I have to sift through photos of this kid with other aunts and uncles and friends and know that I wasn't included in those special events.

She's not a terrible person but a thoughtless one who hasn't ever returned any of my kindness.

So I said "no".  In an equally breezy, "sorry, but I'm super slammed.  Plus, honestly, these projects bum me out.  Have a great season!"  I worded it nicer but it was still short and sweet.

She flatly replied back with, "well, can you suggest anyone else that could help or a place online that I can do it myself."

That reply is helping me understand that I made the right choice.  She's not interested in what I've got going on in my life.  Or that I struggle with my childlessness.  She needs something.  I can do it.  I should do it.  And I didn't.  She's done with me for the moment.  Probably forever since she's not even going to waste her time asking again.

She has never invited me anywhere.
When she comes to town she doesn't ask if I want to meet up.
When she asks about my life it's obviously polite and not out of real interest.
When I attend a party at her house she chats mostly with her mom friends or drinking buddies.

None of this is a crime.  But it does mean that I am not obligated to rearrange my life, and my heart, to make a poster for her kid.


It feels bad.  The old me thinks, "you know what - it won't take me THAT long."  "This might change things between us."  "This would give us something to "bond" over." I even downloaded some graphics that I felt might help.  I started a file.  I stopped.

But the new me knows that in 17 years she's never really included me in her kids life.  In the 20 years I've known her she hasn't helped me in my dark times.  We have nothing in common and she's not interested in building a relationship.  ME doing this work for HER isn't going to change that.


Here's my other problem.  I reached out to a trusted friend for reassurance and support and she just replied.  She replied quickly and with honest support.  But her reply wasn't what I was looking for.  I wanted a "you're a great person.  Sorry this is hard" sort of response.  It's what I expected from her and didn't get.  I'm left with feeling like people don't care or understand me.

Which isn't true.

I'm dumping this out here to remember that it's MY JOB to make decisions and to feel okay about them.

It's OKAY to say "no" to this person and to rest in the knowledge that someone else in her life WILL be able to help her.

It's OKAY to reach out to a friend but I need to ultimately take responsibility for my own feelings, my childlessness, my choices, my decisions and especially how I operate the rest of the day.

I AM a good person who WILL do things for others.  I AM truly too busy with my own obligations to do ANOTHER project.  My heart DOES hurt when I do things pertaining to my nieces and nephews.  It's in my best interest to protect myself right now.

I still want to puke though.  I feel terrible that I'm not helping.  Someday I want to be able to just say "no" and move on effortlessly.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Hopeful!

You read that request from SiL so very well and you know yourself so very well also.  a H-U-G-E congrats to you the both the mindfulness of self-control and saying no, as well as the accurate read of the situation. 

You wrote:

"She flatly replied back with, "well, can you suggest anyone else that could help or a place online that I can do it myself."

That reply is helping me understand that I made the right choice.  She's not interested in what I've got going on in my life."

+100   Well done on the accurate advanced read on the situation and self-protection with the "no" boundary! 

You also wrote:

"It's OKAY to say "no" to this person and to rest in the knowledge that someone else in her life WILL be able to help her.

It's OKAY to reach out to a friend but I need to ultimately take responsibility for my own feelings, my childlessness, my choices, my decisions and especially how I operate the rest of the day.

I AM a good person who WILL do things for others.  I AM truly too busy with my own obligations to do ANOTHER project.  My heart DOES hurt when I do things pertaining to my nieces and nephews.  It's in my best interest to protect myself right now.

I still want to puke though.  I feel terrible that I'm not helping.  Someday I want to be able to just say "no" and move on effortlessly."


Great mindfulness, rising above it all, looking back down from end-to-end in understanding, as well as acceptance of the truth, with "warts and all " as some like to say.

Allowing myself grace with these types of things and that any different feelings I may desire, make take lots of time to alter (like erosion)...maybe even never. I guess not in this lifetime is ok as well, but I can, like your name, be hopeful as I steady work on accepting and/or overcoming my past

I tip my hat to you! Cheers!

SoT

[Hopeful Spine]

Allowing myself grace with these types of things and that any different feelings I may desire, make take lots of time to alter (like erosion)...maybe even never. I guess not in this lifetime is ok as well, but I can, like your name, be hopeful as I steady work on accepting and/or overcoming my past

SoT

Thanks for your comment.  I agree that time is what is will take.  I'm rooting for both of us.

After I hit "send" I promptly got on this site and made my previous post.  I reached out to my friend and then got busy with someone who walked into the office.  By the time I finished my tasks I already felt more secure.  Strong.  Happy even.  Mostly relieved that I didn't have to deal with all the pictures and back and forth it would take to do this project. 

I still feel uneasy and I am having trouble getting back on track.  But I no longer feel sick or "ashamed" of myself for not helping her.

My mental health is enough of a (private) excuse to say no.  I don't have to share that info with anyone in order for it to be a valid reason.  I was washing my hands and caught a look of myself in the mirror and it struck me.  I'm eating better and it's improving my physical and mental health (and appearance) but I'm not well.  No one in my real life would ever know because I carry myself nicely.  However, I no long pretend to myself that I'm fine.  I know that I am not.  But I'm making real progress on putting myself together.  So I have no business taking on difficult tasks for random people - in order to make their life only a little easier.

[moglow]

Sometimes we pretend on the surface to get by while those internal baby steps catch up to the rest of us. Saying No was a good option and I'm glad you chose it. It's a pity she didn't have the grace to be compassionate or even respectful, but that's not yours to carry. Having that glimpse into her psyche isn't necessarily a bad thing. Kind of reaffirms what you already knew, albeit in a more undeniable way. 

I understand the heartache and I'm so sorry you carry it.

[Hopeful Spine]

Sometimes we pretend on the surface to get by while those internal baby steps catch up to the rest of us. Saying No was a good option and I'm glad you chose it. It's a pity she didn't have the grace to be compassionate or even respectful, but that's not yours to carry. Having that glimpse into her psyche isn't necessarily a bad thing. Kind of reaffirms what you already knew, albeit in a more undeniable way.

I understand the heartache and I'm so sorry you carry it.

I agree - it's good to experience the disregard to really understand the importance of where to invest my time.  She could have said, "thanks anyway, glad your business is going well."  Or even a more pointed, "I totally understand how this sort of project would be hard for you.  Thanks for the reply."  Instead she focused on her own need and left my last comment on read. 

I'd rather feel a little hurt and anxious about this today (and move on tomorrow) - rather than stress over the project for days, feel sad and resentful while dealing with all her requests, and then feel really hurt when I figure out that it didn't budge our relationship in anyway.

This really is a good day.

[Hopeful Spine]

Just a rough day.  This weekend I worked an event for my husband's business.  As an introvert I dislike long hours of working with people.  I dislike seeing all sorts of people I casually know and making small talk.  Because I'm working, I can't really get away or pick and choose.  The actual task I do is fine - I can do it - but I don't like the whole experience.

His mother helps us for periods of time.  We don't really need her but "she likes helping" so my husband includes her.  I used to be proud that he made room for her.  But she makes things harder and can be negative.

My husband is very extrovert.  Plus he is passionate about his business and can be very specific on how things are done.  I really do "get that".  But he becomes so focused on his business and running the event that he doesn't have time to be complimentary or supportive.  For the greater good I set aside my feelings to be friendly, fun and as much of a team player as possible.  But he doesn't seem to remember that the whole event is a huge effort for me.  At the end of the day I only have myself to pat myself on the back. 

Yesterday I had a headache and powered through.  Honestly I felt much better 7 hours in but inside I was just a mess.  It had been a long day and everything my husband was doing (being loud, extra entertaining when not needed) was annoying me.  His mother just smiled and laughed at everything he did.  When we had discussions about the things we needed to do I had a different opinion than him but obviously didn't argue - it's his business after all.  Well, his mother completely agreed with him.  I watched her carefully look at his face while he was talking.  Then she slowly started to either shake or nod her head to match what he was saying.  Then when I disagreed she kept looking at him to gauge if he'd be changing his opinion.  She only wanted to agree with him.

Anyway, at one point in the night he was being "extra" and I asked him to please take into account my headache and tone it down.  Him and his mom both said, "go ahead and leave".  Now they said it nicely.  They weren't jerks about it or anything but I wasted no time in leaving.

I felt guilty about lying about still having a headache but the fact remains is that I worked my butt off all day (plus a good part of yesterday) for very little appreciation or credit.  I felt like my personality needed to take a backseat, which is maybe reasonable when you are helping someone with something specific.  But the difference is that my husband didn't appreciate it.  Not once did he check in.  Not once did he say, "thanks for going the extra mile".  He was just hounding me about the things I did "wrong" or got agitated when I voiced my opinion.

Plus my other sister-in-law came to town for the event, which was really surprising.  But it still hurt when she walked past my area without stopping in or saying "hi".  It's so weird.  It's not like she hates me or we had some sort of argument.  She saw me, she just literally didn't care to stop.

Sometimes I start to think that I'm just overly sensitive and that I'm expecting too much.  After all, how could so many people in the same family disregard or disappointment me?  It MUST be me and my super high expectations right?  But I truly don't think I am this way.  I mean, at one time yes, I did think people "should" do certain things.  But now I feel like I'm reasonable and just have a lot of people in my life who aren't even baseline friendly or polite.

But my problem isn't the sister in law.  It's not the mother in law.  The problem is my relationship with my husband who doesn't take into account my minimal needs.  Who doesn't respect my feelings about having his mother around so much.  I have to figure out boundaries and enforce them.  Worse of all - I have to accept the fact that he isn't able to support me on my self esteem journey.  If I tell him that I feel underappreciated he may take a deep breath and say, "Hopeful, I do appreciate you."  But he won't say it on his own.  And worse, he won't really feel it.  It's fake.

I used to feel like my husband was abused by narcissists.  He was the family scapegoat and needed to be loved.  But I'm starting to think that he is a low grade (maybe recovering) narcissist who is too busy and tired to really try anymore.  At 20 years in - fighting for my own self esteem - I'm realizing that the most important person in my life has hurt me the most and literally can't truly understand or appreciate me.  Moments like these make me questions every relationship in my life. 

Today is a hard day.

[notrightinthehead]

Thank you for sharing that. I think many people can relate.
Looks to me that the fog is clearing and you are ready and willing to see and accept reality. It is painful. It is hard. And it is real.
Seems to me that your need of being appreciated, complimented, receiving loving words is not being fulfilled. How can you give yourself what you need? How can you get from outside what you need? And would you be willing to freely continue giving, putting in all that effort, if you were to give up the hope that it would ever give you any appreciation from the people you make that effort for?

[Hopeful Spine]

Thank you for sharing that. I think many people can relate.
Looks to me that the fog is clearing and you are ready and willing to see and accept reality. It is painful. It is hard. And it is real.
Seems to me that your need of being appreciated, complimented, receiving loving words is not being fulfilled. How can you give yourself what you need? How can you get from outside what you need? And would you be willing to freely continue giving, putting in all that effort, if you were to give up the hope that it would ever give you any appreciation from the people you make that effort for?

I've been through a lot with my husband.  Infidelity, public humiliation, therapy, sobriety, all of it.  When we sorted things out 10-15 years ago I was satisfied and happy with the turn in our marriage.  So relieved and grateful.  But in recent years - the years I've been working on myself - I'm not feeling that same satisfaction with my marriage. 

I love him.  I don't want to leave him.  There is enough good (great even) about our marriage.  But as I level up with all my relationships I'm finding that I don't have the same tolerance I used to have.  If I feel used or disregarded - I make moves to end the relationship.  Sometimes slowly.  Sometimes passively.  But I close that chapter and find new people who are interested in a more balanced friendship. 

It's still a struggle but I'm learning when to stop investing myself into others.  I can still be kind.  I can still give basic human decency, respect and interest.  But I'm not going to continue a relationship where others are needy and take advantage of me.

My husband is not growing with me.  Yes, he's become a wonderful person.  Smart, good and accomplished.  He's not even close to being terrible.  But he's not seeing the need to fulfill what his "revised wife" is needing.  Eight years ago I was just thrilled to go home after a party and not deal with drunken abusive language.  I didn't need him to be anything other than sober and nice. 

Current day I want more from him.  I struggle with feeling okay.  Eight years ago I wasn't saying "no" to people.  I was still oblivious to my unhealthy patterns.  Today I use the word but it's still hard to say "no". 

It's hard to be treated with disregard after I say "no".  Even though my brain says, "see you were right to say "no" - this person is a user" my heart still hurts that I've disappointed someone.  That little bit of longing inside of me wants to say "yes" so that I can get that rush of happiness when I am momentarily "liked" by the person I said "yes" to.

He doesn't "get it".  I feel validation after posting on this forum, talking to myself, or privately enjoying the small successes along the way.  Sometimes I design something and I know it's good.  Real good.  And I love that zing in my heart that tells me I (ME!) am good!!  But without someone else (occasionally) saying, "ohhh, that is great.  You are talented" it's sort of a game.  Am I good?  Or do I only think I'm good?

My husband tells me he's not comfortable giving compliments.  He prefers to do things for me instead.  Right now he's fixing my car.  Earlier today he ran an errand for me.  Later we will enjoy our ice cream together. 

But I want him to grow outside his comfort zone the way I grew out of mine.

Did I want to deal with him being arrested for picking up a prostitute?  No, but I gathered my courage to stand by his side, attend therapy, eventually establish intimacy again.  All while knowing that others judged me for staying with him.

Did I want to deal with his drunken evenings out?  No, but I gained patience from dealing with his drunk attitude, I found more patience to support his sobriety, I myself quit drinking and faced his family parties without alcohol. 

So maybe he can find a way to dig deep and get out of his comfort zone and tell his wife she is beautiful every once in awhile?  That she is smart and kind.  That he values her.

Because I'm sick of telling myself those things.

I can't build intimacy with someone who behaves as if it's pathetic to want that sort of verbal attention.  I don't feel good around him.  I feel lesser.  Especially when I've told him ALL THESE THINGS to his face and he still doesn't get it.  I used to think that maybe I wasn't worth it.  But I've changed and I KNOW I am worth it.  But is he?

[Hopeful Spine]

Feeling profoundly sad.  My husband's family is in town.  Long story short - we only learned of the gathering Saturday mid-morning.  Because I had all sort of things planned my husband said it was okay if I stayed behind.  He went to the gathering where many extended family showed up.  Clearly they had all gotten a message that we hadn't.

Even though I didn't want to go.  Even though I was relieved that my husband didn't expect me to attend.  It still hurt.  I spent the day feeling unloved, disregarded, confused.  When he returned home we went on to have a nice night together.  He told me all about how people behaved and it just made me sad all over again.  A reminder of their lives, their connections, their relationships where they are looking out for each other.

My husband and I are nobodies to them.  We don't understand.  We can't voice our hurts to them without setting ourselves up for scapegoating. 

I know this will pass.  But today I'm sad and realizing how much more work I have ahead of me in terms of boundaries and emotional strength.  I'm tired.

[Pepin]

I love him.  I don't want to leave him.  There is enough good (great even) about our marriage.  But as I level up with all my relationships I'm finding that I don't have the same tolerance I used to have.  If I feel used or disregarded - I make moves to end the relationship.  Sometimes slowly.  Sometimes passively.  But I close that chapter and find new people who are interested in a more balanced friendship. 


My husband is not growing with me.  Yes, he's become a wonderful person.  Smart, good and accomplished.  He's not even close to being terrible.  But he's not seeing the need to fulfill what his "revised wife" is needing. 


Current day I want more from him.  I struggle with feeling okay. 


It's hard to be treated with disregard after I say "no". 


He doesn't "get it". 


My husband tells me he's not comfortable giving compliments.  He prefers to do things for me instead. 


But I want him to grow outside his comfort zone the way I grew out of mine.


I can't build intimacy with someone who behaves as if it's pathetic to want that sort of verbal attention. 

I am sad for you...these are very painful revelations.  I am also sad for myself because I align with all of this with my husband as well.  I realized not too long ago that my husband has been unable to walk with me.  Or maybe that it is I who is unable to walk with him.  Because I have grown exponentially after everything we have been through while he remains somewhat the same.  Verbally telling him that he has hurt me with his behavior hasn't really led to much change on his end....it just means finding other ways to do what he wants to do without me finding out.  Which sadly, is kind of like what CN MIL used to do as well. 

DH's relationship towards me has become more transactional as well....he prefers to do things for me or our children.  He doesn't use words.  Same as his mother.  This isn't the man I married.  This is the man that has become this way from his mother's direction rather than the direction DH and I should have been cultivating for ourselves over the years. 

Even though we live under the same roof and CN MIL is gone, I still don't feel as though I am being included in DH's life.  I am not included because I have grown and like you, refuse to tolerate certain behaviors anymore.  The old me would just let stuff go and now I am like no way.  Because now I have boundaries about what I will and won't tolerate.  The thing is that I don't see DH making any adjustments.  He doesn't respond with any sort of concern...rather, it is a quiet sulk.  Just like CN MIL.  It is an immaturity at best....something I find concerning because CN MIL dug her heels in around being a responsible adult.  It isn't like my DH isn't being responsible, he is only being responsible to others while avoiding me - which allows others to see him as a good person.  Avoidance.  He's keeping the torch lit....getting things done for others while going around me.  I used to be central in his life....until we made more room for CN MIL.  She ruined everything.  And it's so sad....wondering every day if I should go or stay with DH.  I struggle to be intimate with a man that is constantly avoiding me.  I wish he would see the light about how he was treated within his family.  Being the hero child was not a good thing....yet he thinks it is.   

[SonofThunder]

Hey Comrades,

My stbx's complaints to me of "SoT you are not the man I married!" are very true. I'm not, i'm a 'New Me'! I'm not a caretaker any longer. Hallelujah!!  I said that same thing of her a few years into the marriage, but was skillfully IDD cycled and drama triangle'd. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Mrs SoT is exactly the same person she revealed herself to be decades ago.  She was hiding the real Mrs SoT in the love bombing phase. She carefully selected and married a caretaker. Host acquired!

The turbulence reached a point I had to bail, but at the same time it was a bit unfair for my stbx to also be legally bound to the 'New Me'; the now non-caretaking, educated, experienced, hyper-aware man she didn't marry.  Possible food for thought for those who are struggling because their spouse hasn't adjusted into a 'New Me' also, but just the same unsupportive, needy, predator person we prey originally married. There are still lots of caretakers in the sea. 

SoT

[Hopeful Spine]

DH's relationship towards me has become more transactional as well....he prefers to do things for me or our children.  He doesn't use words.  Same as his mother.  This isn't the man I married.  This is the man that has become this way from his mother's direction rather than the direction DH and I should have been cultivating for ourselves over the years. 

---

Because now I have boundaries about what I will and won't tolerate.     

Good.  For.  You.  I know how hard it is to achieve boundaries and it can really be hard to not slip back into those roles with the person we consider to be the most important - our partner.  My husband has really grown SO MUCH in his journey.  But he's grown within himself.  He doesn't really extend that growth into other relationships.  His siblings push his buttons and he's sulky.  His mother strokes his ego and he enjoys it.  He has budding relationship with men who have similar interests and he doesn't take chances on making new friends.  His wife is honest about her needs, fears, anxieties and he doesn't do the things that she has told him will help.  He does what he thinks she needs.  What he is comfortable contributing.

Like you I fear that our marriage is going backwards.  His dad barks and his mom takes it and then pouts about it later.  Nope.  I'm not going to spend the rest of my life pretending that those words don't cut me down.  Maybe when I'm stronger I will push more.  But for right now I'm going to just continue to build up my self esteem. 

Good luck to you.  Sounds like you are well aware of what you are up against.  But wisdom is difficult. 

[Hopeful Spine]

The turbulence reached a point I had to bail, but at the same time it was a bit unfair for my stbx to also be legally bound to the 'New Me'; the now non-caretaking, educated, experienced, hyper-aware man she didn't marry.  Possible food for thought for those who are struggling because their spouse hasn't adjusted into a 'New Me' also, but just the same unsupportive, needy, predator person we prey originally married. There are still lots of caretakers in the sea. 

SoT

Good for you for making the positive steps to help your wife be free from the "New You".  It is an interesting take.  You've given me great advice over the years.  I have no doubt that you will sail on just fine on your own (and, if you wish, find the right person to continue life with).  Your stbx will struggle for sure.  They do need us more than we need them. 

I've spent so many years feeling less than.  One visit with my mother tells me everything.  All the comments, her leading behavior.  If I wanted her approval I needed to be catty, small and only "enough".  Clean clothes and brushed hair but don't put on makeup and try to look pretty.  It's okay to talk crap about your friends as long as you say something like, "oh well, she's a nice person."  Don't even try to be friends with anyone who is "popular" they will only make fun of you behind your back.  Kiss your dates ("give em a little something") but don't be a slut.  All these rules that no one else seemed to follow.  It made me feel superior - as well as inferior. 

I don't play those games anymore but I'm just not where I want to be yet.  I'm grateful to have this place to vent.  Thank you for being a person who cares.

In other news . . .

I did something stupid and visited my PD SIL's social media.  There she was with my SIL who finally gave me that apology I was wanting.  Man.  They looked so damn happy together in all those pictures.  I KNOW it's fake.  I KNOW it's temporary.  But it still hurts.  It hurts a lot today.  I'm overwhelmed with work and other things and it just hit me hard.  I have to move forward knowing I have real friends and it's good that they are currently feeding off each other instead of reeling me into their web.

[SonofThunder]

The turbulence reached a point I had to bail, but at the same time it was a bit unfair for my stbx to also be legally bound to the 'New Me'; the now non-caretaking, educated, experienced, hyper-aware man she didn't marry.  Possible food for thought for those who are struggling because their spouse hasn't adjusted into a 'New Me' also, but just the same unsupportive, needy, predator person we prey originally married. There are still lots of caretakers in the sea. 

SoT

Good for you for making the positive steps to help your wife be free from the "New You".  It is an interesting take.  You've given me great advice over the years.  I have no doubt that you will sail on just fine on your own (and, if you wish, find the right person to continue life with).  Your stbx will struggle for sure.  They do need us more than we need them. 

I've spent so many years feeling less than.  One visit with my mother tells me everything.  All the comments, her leading behavior.  If I wanted her approval I needed to be catty, small and only "enough".  Clean clothes and brushed hair but don't put on makeup and try to look pretty.  It's okay to talk crap about your friends as long as you say something like, "oh well, she's a nice person."  Don't even try to be friends with anyone who is "popular" they will only make fun of you behind your back.  Kiss your dates ("give em a little something") but don't be a slut.  All these rules that no one else seemed to follow.  It made me feel superior - as well as inferior. 

I don't play those games anymore but I'm just not where I want to be yet.  I'm grateful to have this place to vent.  Thank you for being a person who cares.

In other news . . .

I did something stupid and visited my PD SIL's social media.  There she was with my SIL who finally gave me that apology I was wanting.  Man.  They looked so damn happy together in all those pictures.  I KNOW it's fake.  I KNOW it's temporary.  But it still hurts.  It hurts a lot today.  I'm overwhelmed with work and other things and it just hit me hard.  I have to move forward knowing I have real friends and it's good that they are currently feeding off each other instead of reeling me into their web.

Hopeful,

Im sorry you are hurting today. Im trying to learn to be gentler on myself, and its a daily thing I need to practice.

You wrote:

"Good for you for making the positive steps to help your wife be free from the "New You".  It is an interesting take.  You've given me great advice over the years.  I have no doubt that you will sail on just fine on your own (and, if you wish, find the right person to continue life with).  Your stbx will struggle for sure.  They do need us more than we need them."

I will take that paragraph and reply backwards, from the bottom up.  I agree with your last sentence, but imo, its not the 51% rule nor is it a marriage. Its a parasite-host, a predator-prey relationship.  Imo, my stbx will mostly struggle with having new adult responsibilities that she has not had before. My adult child has noted to me that not once in the entire separation, my stbx has mentioned 'missing' me. My stbx is moving full steam ahead in her new life. As I stated, there are plenty of caretakers in the sea. Thanks for your positive well wishes and I agree, I will sail on fine on my own.

My previous post is simply a fair observation. I do not look at it as I set the predator free, but it IS true. I decided to get myself out of bordered prairie to legally protect and provide my own emotional (therefore physical) safety.

In a marriage to a PD, there is a tall, legal, locked fence around the prairie. The hungry lion loves the taste of the grass-eating gazelle. Both are born into the boundary'd prairie as predator and prey. The Gazelle has finally figured out this terribly unequal relationship and through educated awareness, new tools and application, has found the ability to become a 'New Me' and changed itself into a hyena.

Lions and hyenas are not in the same type of relationship and now the lion is slowly starving due to lack of normal supply and the new hyena is now grazing on other prairie leftovers. The meat eating lion isn't going to change itself into a gazelle so it can eat grass to survive, as then it will be prey.

Therefore, in animal (and human) equal rights, its actually fair to the lion, to unlock the gate and let the hungry lion live elsewhere. My fair observation is that my marriage should have been a covenant among equals, not a profit for one at the expense of the other. Its not a 'take' I actually claim, but it is true; I became a 'New Me'; an unpalatable and incompatible prairie companion; far different than the gazelle she was accustomed to chewing on since the wedding day. 

My stbx would emotionally starve if I kept increasing my self protection while in a legal marriage. Therefore, since I proactively unlocked the gate myself and skedaddled to safety, the gate remains wide open for her to go roam another prairie.

SoT

[Hopeful Spine]

It's been a great weekend for self reflection and self control.

Thursday night I had an issue with a difficult customers.  Details are not important but this customer was being extra needy during a time I don't have much to give.  Despite the things I had on my plate I agreed to meet with him Friday morning.

Friday morning I greeted the customer warmly.  I had realized, overnight, that this man needed something for a very special event. He is a wealthy, highly regarded man, faced with a difficult time in his life.  My help and my skills are vital (in a way that secondary silly things are "vital").  What I mean is that he had no control over the services I was providing to him and he needed more from me than a smile and a promise.  He wasn't just a jerk bossing me around.  He's scared that I won't help him.  I set up the meeting with confidence, knowing that his efforts to control would run things off course.  That wasn't as important as it was for me to dig into my deep well of compassion and greet him at the meeting with kindness.  I had to spare 40 minutes of a very busy morning to placate him but it also did something for me too.  I knew my years of people pleasing allowed met to compartmentalize my feelings and deal with this man.

After that I had to set up for a special event and this year it was different.  I didn't notice or care what sort of connections were going on around me.  Why?  Because I have spent that last couple of years building real connections and I had four people that day that I was able to wave to, text, visit and help.  With those real connections I had no time to be jealous of the other people having little clusters of popularity.

My mother in law, who usually bugs me, was helping my husband at his area of the event.  It was her birthday so I made extra efforts to be special with her. In the course of the day I realized that one of the things that bugs me so much is how she's always making a big deal out of saying "Love ya".  The way she says it annoys me.  The fact that she says it in front of other people annoys me.  The feeling that I HAVE to say it back annoys me.  Here's what I realized.  She doesn't hear it enough and that is why she likely makes a big deal about saying it all the time.  I have no doubt that she does love her family and that is the ultimate reason she says it.  But her personality leads me to believe that she wants to hear it too and so she "gets" what she wants by giving it away.  This is not terrible but more of an indication that she doesn't have enough fulfilling relationships in her life that support her.  I very much see myself in my mother in law.  Or at least I see my old self in her actions.  My solution, going forward, is to greet her with extra kindness when I see her, which should make her more secure.  Control my annoyance.  And sort of see if that makes the pressing "love ya" disappear.

Saturday was a big day.  The event was finishing up.  My friend who ran the event wasn't chatting with me or our other friend.  She was laughing it up and schmoozing with everyone else which sort of hurt.  But I know that my friend sort of "shuts down" in these sort of situations.  She had reached her limit as she has on the last three years of Saturdays after this event.  So I gave it a pass.  She barely even said "goodbye".  But two hours later she texted me with her apologies and explained that she was super overwhelmed and saving her best for the people she needed to impress.  It was incredibly rewarding to get those honest words and to support her in return.

Next was my class reunion.  Of which I was in charge.  No one else on the committee did much.  I wanted to make posters, have a trivial contest, put up photos - SOMETHING.  But no one responded to my request for help.  Everyone is busy - I get it.  I decided to do a funny little party favor thing.  Three hours before the party I started to thing that maybe I'd do a trivia thing after all - but I stopped myself.  This class reunion was going to be a sad little party and I just needed to let it happen.  I shoved my yearbooks in a bag to bring to the reunion, brought my favor and threw on some clothes (for once I didn't even shop or plan the "perfect" outfit).  The favors were a hit, no one stayed still long enough to do a trivia contest anyway.  It was a very casual event in a local bar and the class visited with all sorts of local people who were also there.  A trivia contest would have been very awkward. 

As the "host" I chatted with everyone and was happy to notice that a few people were still the same and most of them were largely different. I was not uncomfortable or stressed at anytime and that was a huge first for me.

While going through a box of photos for the reunion I ran across pictures of me and my husband in our early years. This was when cell phone didn't take pictures so I have stacks of professionally developed, paper photos of our fun times.  Lots of parties.  Lots of pics of his siblings.  This continues with the earlier weddings (even our own) and the first few nieces and nephews.  We all looked so happy.  But.  I wasn't in very many photos. 

I could see the drunken glaze of my husbands eyes and I could remember how those evenings ended with fights and arguments between all these fun-loving people.  Yes, I got to experience their fun and laughter and I even have a few memories of my own where I was truly part of things.  I had such hopes then that I would be included and equally loved.  THAT is what I seem to be holding onto with this family.  What I captured in those pictures is what I still want.  But it doesn't exist anymore.  When it did exist I wasn't really a part of it. 

I've not been rejected from something special.  I was never really included to begin with.  I was just the silly young woman who thought she was.

This winter I'm going to go through these photos and give them to the people who are featured in them.  In kindness I want to give back the memories that I stole for my own.  It will be a gift for them (they were too busy having fun to take their own pictures) But mostly I hope that this releases me from remembering things incorrectly.

And now onto the best parts of my update.

My husband and I have a habit of buying a pie before going to a function that we don't really want to attend (a family party for him or a long event for me).  While I was getting ready I offhandedly said, "I sure wish we would have had time to get a pie today."

Well.  He snuck out and picked up a pie while I was doing my hair and when returned home it was complete joy for me to find a beautiful apple pie in the fridge! I felt so loved.

And finally - today I'm doing exactly what I want and my husband is going to join me.  We have a busy week ahead of us and today is going to be nice.  I feel so accomplished, healthy and loved.  All of us on this site are doing hard things.  It's crazy difficult to solve these deep rooted issues.  But the feeling I have today is what (I hope) many of us feel from time to time on our journey.  It's such a great feeling and I find that the longer I struggle on this path, the closer these "good" days happen.  The reward is very much worth it. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Bingo!  When something uncomfortable pops up I get a sort of sick feeling.  Then, when I agree, I mindfully say, "okay, it's fine.  Deal with it.  Just do XYZ and it will be okay."  And I do the annoying "XYZ" and get very resentful but I keep it to myself and I do feel good at the end of it.  But it's not a healthy good.  It's self-rightous and superior.  Plus I'm happy that the only person upset is ME.  And I always reward myself afterward.  I'll feel justified to let myself read for hours instead of taking care of a task that needs to be done.  I'll reward myself with fast food for lunch if I finish a big favor for someone.  Or get ice cream AFTER having the fast food.  Lots of things make me happy and I selfishly over-indulge when I believe I "deserve" it. 

These are not every day decisions but it sure does put a mentally unhealthy spin on the things I do.

For the last couple years I've still been a people pleaser but - I was at least mindful of what I was doing.  It's just taking so damn long to get to this point.  And people aren't behaving how I want and it's really making me irritated.  I can't wait to be done with all this unhealthy thinking.

Oof. Well this post sure hit home for me today! Thank you for holding up that mirror for me. I've been having similar reflections on my own stinkin' thinkin' and resentments. Donning the trauma queen tiara and martyring through and blaming everyone but myself. It's not pretty.

Like you it's not an every day thing. And yes, people are not always behaving well. But my response really does need to change. Thanks again.

[Hopeful Spine]

Oof. Well this post sure hit home for me today! Thank you for holding up that mirror for me. I've been having similar reflections on my own stinkin' thinkin' and resentments. Donning the trauma queen tiara and martyring through and blaming everyone but myself. It's not pretty.

Like you it's not an every day thing. And yes, people are not always behaving well. But my response really does need to change. Thanks again.

Happy to help.    Lately I've been doing way better at saying "no" or stopping myself from over-extending myself.  However, I scared myself over the weekend.  I had to plan the class reunion and I wasn't making people pay when they rsvp-ed.  I guess I didn't want to be fussy or whatever.  I told myself these people would pay.  It would be fine. 
Some people paid ahead of time like they were supposed to.  Well, four people didn't show up.  Another gal invited a teacher who attended with her husband (and didn't pay).  Since I had booked the arrangements I was on the hook for the balance. I did some quick math in the bathroom and (LUCKILY) luckily I had padded the registration fee and I completely broke even. 

I blamed the classmates for having poor manners and poor rsvp skills.  But it was still my fault - I should have chased down these people and pressed them, "I need money for the bill, will you be sending a venmo?".

I blamed the committee for not taking this off my plate.  Or checking in with me.  But I assumed that responsibility and it was on me to share the issue with the rest of the committee.

I blamed the gal who invited the teacher.  She should have gotten the money and paid up front.  But I couldn't argue that it was ME who told the venue the number for the food count.  I should have contacted the gal and said, "teacher didn't pay.  Did you grab payment from them when you invited?"

I didn't do these things because I wanted to be cool.  Easy-going.  And look good fronting everything.

Lesson learned.   

I am so very lucky I didn't get stuck with $100 balance to pay.  Because I know right now - I would have quietly paid it and not told a soul.  So you can see - I still have a ways to go in my journey.   

[Hopeful Spine]

A happy report - my husband shared my business post on his business page in a bit of support.  He also added his own words of thanks for my help this past summer.  I was very surprised and touched.  He also slid in a private compliment while we were discussing our schedules and work loads.  I really needed both of those efforts.

A friend wants to partner up for a project and while discussing details she made a big stink about payment.  She was not going to let me give her any freebies.  I was actually a bit annoyed with her for being so bossy with me.  Worse, she actually seemed annoyed with . . . ME!     The further we get into this project I'm finding myself contrite.  She is right.  All the things she threw in my face were correct and she said them to support and empower me.  In the past I've had similar situations where I allowed others to take advantage of me.  My annoyance was actually my shame for how I used to behave (and was about to again).  I'm feeling very blessed to have reached this level and to have a friend who isn't afraid to speak up.