The next step.

[square]

Thank you all.

Rose, that is so helpful. That's so true. A suicide threat from someone else is just that, not a homocide threat from me.

I of course do not wish for anyone to face suicide, not to complete it or attempt it or even consider it. That is not only not among my goals, it is entirely counter to my goals.

And you're right, his trauma was not me. Of course I'm sure I've hurt him over the years, unfortunately, as can happen even in a good marriage but probably even more so in a marriage complicated with mental illness and stress.

But I have in fact tried (and failed) to build him up, not down. I've declined to take advantage of his vulnerabilities. I do not enjoy hurting him and try my best to avoid it.

It's also really strange if he feels I am absolutely critical to his life, yet treats me like crap? Maybe if I was really the only thing propping him up, he might appreciate me a bit?

I've been by his side through his very lowest moments, times when many others would have bailed. I was not only there, but I was probably one of the most emotionally supportive and also useful in a practical sense of anybody I personally know. But while he has certainly felt the relief of knowing his wife was on the case, he has only taken that relief for granted.

And when he tries to get that relief for more mundane issues that crop up, he is just angry that I "won't help." But also never stops to wonder if he's ever helped me, if he's been the kind of husband to me that would be worthy of the supportive and helpful wife he expects.

People are allowed to leave their dysfunctional relationships. If his life somehow actaully depended on me not leaving, I guess it wasn't really a priority for him.

[Rebel13]

People are allowed to leave their dysfunctional relationships.

Absolutely! People can, and do, leave relationships all the time, for all kinds of reasons. The only reason you need is that you don't want to be in it anymore. The other person can be the best person in the world, and you can still not want to be around them. You're allowed. We all are. I'm so glad you are on the road out!

[square]

The housing authority called. They need a few more things from me, and then it sounds like they have a unit available imminently. Like, to move into this very month.

I feel like I'm going to puke.

But also, I'm not considering bailing out of it. I have to go. I can't stay. I wish I could stay but it's not an option.

I have a few things I need to juggle. One item they need is documentation of DD's student loan. I will have to ask her for it. I'll have to figure out some lie for why I need it.

I also need to wait until H finishes the taxes to tell him. They are due the 15th. They are basically the central stressor of the year for him. When I tell him the news i assume he will go on a drinking bender and probably call out of work. I don't know. I've never done this before, so who knows what to expect. Anyway, he almost can't file taxes every year as it is, so I'm going to have him finish before dropping this on him. For his sake and also mine.

I dread telling him but also want him to finish taxes asap so I can tell him asap. Not looking to just leave him holding the mortgage and bills by himself with zero heads up, and here it turns out to be basically zero heads up. I don't know how much savings he has, and I worry it's just a few hundred dollars, which would mean he might literally be sunk from the get go. I will have to give him some of my rapidly dwindling savings just to make this happen.

I also want to tell DD asap, and I will not tell her until after I tell H. But they want to schedule a unit walkthrough soon, and I can't do that without her. And as an adult residing in the unit, she will be required to sign the lease as a co-renter (obviously I'm head of household).

I also have to figure out how to physically move. I'd love to do it myself but this is not possible. I'll have to figure out where on the Internet I can hire a couple of guys for hopefully not too much money, and it would be nice if part of the deal included them dealing with the truck. I'm moving half a mile away,  lol, so hopefully that makes things easier and cheaper.

I'm about to burn through most of my remaining savings. I assume I'll be ponying up first/last/deposit. Moving costs. I have to buy DD a bed for the new place. (Mine is so old the springs are literally poking through but I'll just have to deal with it). I have to buy a bunch of small things but they add up - a bath mat, a pot, a colander, a cheap futon to sit on.

I literally don't know how I'm going to afford this. DD's car is leaking oil and I just spent over 3k on repairs in August. If the car dies before she is gainfully employed, I have no ability to make a car payment. And she goes to school an hour away.

So I have no idea how this is all going to work. None of this makes sense. It's a bad idea. And I have no choice.

[notrightinthehead]

Square  I am so sorry! It sounds like you are carrying a heavy burden.

I have no advice for you, but when I try to put myself in your shoes, I would do this - I would be very stingy with my savings. I would make sure I use whatever money I have on achieving what is important for saving myself now. All the other committments would have to wait until I am in a position to deal with them.

I see your reasoning why you can't tell him. Then don't tell him. I believe it's your desire to be fair and chivalrous that muddles the situation. Forget about that for now. Find the lifeboat for yourself. You have such an analytical, clear mind -use it to prioritize. Put all the emotions aside, take your calculator and make a sensible, reasonable plan. Your first priority however, should be 'Save Square'.

As for removal companies, I hope people in your corner of the world will have some suggestions.

[SonofThunder]

Square  I am so sorry! It sounds like you are carrying a heavy burden.

I have no advice for you, but when I try to put myself in your shoes, I would do this - I would be very stingy with my savings. I would make sure I use whatever money I have on achieving what is important for saving myself now. All the other committments would have to wait until I am in a position to deal with them.

I see your reasoning why you can't tell him. Then don't tell him. I believe it's your desire to be fair and chivalrous that muddles the situation. Forget about that for now. Find the lifeboat for yourself. You have such an analytical, clear mind -use it to prioritize. Put all the emotions aside, take your calculator and make a sensible, reasonable plan. Your first priority however, should be 'Save Square'.

As for removal companies, I hope people in your corner of the world will have some suggestions.

You can do this Square! 

Please keep in mind that at ground level of PD traits is Fear of Abandonment (FoA). Maybe a male PD will consider it effeminate to show FoA, but they will boldly play the three drama triangle roles to keep their non-PD host attached, trying to keep down the overwhelming, rising, deep FoA feelings of emptiness.

FoA and emotional emptiness in the PD is not our fault to fix, but rather for us to get out of the debilitating quicksand that by design, conditions us to feel as if we are the perpetrator and at fault for causing the FoA, victimhood and emptiness in the PD.  I consider it instinctive for PD's so they may truly not even understand the predator nature of their traits.  Not my problem. 

As tough as this next step is for you, know that your physical and mental health are of highest priority, even if financial how-to's are in question.  You already know that financial is not a reason to stay in the abusive situation and frankly Square your PDh IS the reason for your financial situation today. 

With that said, we non's have all the rightful truth to be justified in anger, yet we are conditioned otherwise in the projection and other manipulation.  Justified anger is empowering and you have every right to depart in anger. 

If you are at all considering that your departure will be attempted to be blocked by him, or that he will be physically aggressive toward you, please notify him in a way that is not in person, after you were gone.  You are not alone. 

SoT

[Rebel13]

Square, I am wishing and hoping so hard for the best for you! I agree with the others here -- use your resources for yourself right now! Once you are settled, you'll have time to build back up and help others again. Sometimes I try to reverse the circumstances, when I'm confused about what is my responsibility, if I am overfunctioning for someone else, etc. If you think about everything you have done for your husband over time -- if someone had done those things for you, you'd be sitting kinda pretty right now, right, with that kind of support? The fact that he isn't, is ALL about him and his choices, and not at all about you. Similarly, if you had done the things that he has done, and he decided to leave you, would you blame him? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't!

I know from your other posts that you have been a wonderful parent, and your daughter is an adult. If you can't help her right now, it's OK -- sometimes adults have to figure situations out for themselves. She wouldn't be the first student to take a break from school, or find her way around without a car for a period of time. I didn't have that kind of support from my parents, and I figured things out and did fine. I'm not saying it was easy, but I do look back on my life and feel proud of how strong I have been and how much I have accomplished and how many obstacles I have overcome in my life. On my good days anyway.  If your daughter is anything like you, she will have the strength and resilience to muddle through while you are prioritizing your own life.

Really, all the best thoughts and wishes for you over the next month! Please keep posting when you can.

[square]

NRITH, thank you.

Your first priority however, should be 'Save Square'.

I love this. I freaking love this. I'm picturing this painted on the side of a water tower. I'm going to remember it when I need it.

[square]

SoT, thank you.

Please keep in mind that at ground level of PD traits is Fear of Abandonment (FoA). Maybe a male PD will consider it effeminate to show FoA, but they will boldly play the three drama triangle roles to keep their non-PD host attached, trying to keep down the overwhelming, rising, deep FoA feelings of emptiness.

Yes, FoA is a core wound for him and he knows it. He will also flip back and forth between hating my guts and wanting me to die, and begging me not to leave.

A very illogical approach. While I am obviously quite susceptible to feeling bad about doing it, the flip flopping itself will actually work against him. If he hates my guts, then I'll do him a favor and move down the street.

FoA and emotional emptiness in the PD is not our fault to fix, but rather for us to get out of the debilitating quicksand that by design, conditions us to feel as if we are the perpetrator and at fault for causing the FoA, victimhood and emptiness in the PD.  I consider it instinctive for PD's so they may truly not even understand the predator nature of their traits.  Not my problem. 

Thank you for this reminder. He's drowning. I've tried to help. I can't. Either I drown with him or I swim to shore. A loving spouse would want me to swim to shore rather than drown with them. I would want that for my loved one.

He does focus entirely on what I need to be doing for him, and there's not any consideration on what he is doing for - or to - me. I'm not a perfect person, but the inbalance is severe.

As tough as this next step is for you, know that your physical and mental health are of highest priority, even if financial how-to's are in question.  You already know that financial is not a reason to stay in the abusive situation and frankly Square your PDh IS the reason for your financial situation today. 

I appreciate you saying that, and I agree. It's a bit counter to my ways; it feels irresponsible to just throw caution to the wind and set up a future i don't know if i can sustain. But I'm not buying a sexy car or vacationing in Tahiti. This is my life, and also it affects DD, and some things are worth taking the risk on.

Many years ago, I supported an Internet friend who left an abusive relationship. She had two small children. She packed up the car and drove to Alaska. She had nothing. She spent 18 months in a shelter and transition program. It was worth it, though. It was a rational, sane decision.

With that said, we non's have all the rightful truth to be justified in anger, yet we are conditioned otherwise in the projection and other manipulation.  Justified anger is empowering and you have every right to depart in anger. 

Thank you, I appreciate that too. Anger gives strength.

Beyond the actual departure, though I do dread dealing with the anger. It's a hell of a knot to unravel, and I know I will need to pray about it. But that is for the future.

If you are at all considering that your departure will be attempted to be blocked by him, or that he will be physically aggressive toward you, please notify him in a way that is not in person, after you were gone.  You are not alone. 

Yeah, I'm thinking a bit about how it will go. Not too hard, just kind of stewing on the back burner. There's no point in thinking too hard because he is so unpredictable, tossed and blown by the wind.

I don't know what the chances he will get physical at all are. It's not zero. I have thoughts on where I will have this conversation, which would be in the car in the driveway, which is private but not that private. We've made it a habit to have hard conversations there in the last few years (so DD didn't have to listen to us fight) and it seems to lead to calmer discussions. There are neighboring houses all around.

I also have some plans to be more vigilant following the talk, such as not using earbuds in the house anymore, and ensuring my phone is on me at all times. Because this won't be a one time event. He will flip back and forth.

He won't stop the move itself, though. Somebody will come and put my crap in a truck, and that's that.

[square]

Rebel, thank you.

If you think about everything you have done for your husband over time -- if someone had done those things for you, you'd be sitting kinda pretty right now, right, with that kind of support?

Yeah. Unfortunately, an ugly bloom of resentment has grown in me. I'm going to have to weed killer amd firebomb that thing right out.

Later.

The fact that he isn't, is ALL about him and his choices, and not at all about you.

We should be doing okay. I realized yesterday that the amount of savings I have right now is equal to the amount I had when I was 22 and met him. I had every reason to believe that it was just a nice little start to a conscientious adult life where I made responsible and disciplined choices and ended up meeting my modest little goals of not being rich but being fine.

I'm nearly fifty and exactly as well off as my college student self, except I now have no future earning potential and no way to build back up. None. I fucking threw my life away.

Sigh. I've got to ignore that for now and deal with it later.

Similarly, if you had done the things that he has done, and he decided to leave you, would you blame him? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't!

What blows my mind is how much he hates my guts and yet will still feel destroyed and betrayed by my leaving.

If I had a spouse leave me, I'd certainly feel all kinds of things, but I certainly wouldn't be carrying out an emotionally terroristic campaign to get them to stay.

I know from your other posts that you have been a wonderful parent, and your daughter is an adult. If you can't help her right now, it's OK -- sometimes adults have to figure situations out for themselves. She wouldn't be the first student to take a break from school, or find her way around without a car for a period of time. I didn't have that kind of support from my parents, and I figured things out and did fine. I'm not saying it was easy, but I do look back on my life and feel proud of how strong I have been and how much I have accomplished and how many obstacles I have overcome in my life. On my good days anyway.  If your daughter is anything like you, she will have the strength and resilience to muddle through while you are prioritizing your own life.

I'm going to be putting everything on the line to get my daughter in a position for her future.

Really, all the best thoughts and wishes for you over the next month! Please keep posting when you can.

Thank you. I'm not exactly shy on the word count; you'll be hearing from me again

[bloomie]

square - you are so brave! I am rooting you on as you take this huge step forward!

Save Square

YES!!!!!!

[SonofThunder]

Hi Square,

You wrote:

"I don't know what the chances he will get physical at all are. It's not zero. I have thoughts on where I will have this conversation, which would be in the car in the driveway, which is private but not that private. We've made it a habit to have hard conversations there in the last few years (so DD didn't have to listen to us fight) and it seems to lead to calmer discussions. There are neighboring houses all around."

I personally experienced the car as a PD trap.  My stbxw used the sound-insulated car & car-rides over the years as her podium to berate me and put me in a double bind in that 4-wheeled trap.  Since you stated "its not zero" I would advise against a vehicle, as it doesn't take a second or two to put a vehicle in motion, making your escape a dangerous, if not life-threatening (your, his or both) weapon. If you are in the drivers seat, its not a quick escape with steering wheel in your lap. 

I will also suggest you not look at this as a "conversation".  This is a proclamation about yourself only! There is, imo, nothing we expect or need from the PD.  It frankly could be a note left on the counter.  Imo, the PD has been abusing us for a long time with no respect for us, as we are just a host to their instinctive parasitic traits. 

We don't owe them anything on departure; don't owe ourselves the bravery or thoughts of 'decency' of an in-person proclamation. We are already the better person for enduring their abuse. They deserve to watch us take every precaution to protect ourselves from further verbal, emotional and physical abuse, which may be a note since "its not zero". The fact its not zero is the further PD-damning reason imo to shed any self-idea that we owe them a face to face departure. 

Ive been there, standing in my house telling my wife I was leaving. When I was done telling her my decision for myself, I told her I was not entertaining a discussion.  I did not desire a conversation, but only that she unmistakably comprehended my decision for myself at that moment and that nothing was stopping me. When she heard my decision for myself, she fell to her knees and sobbed deeply, then stood, turned her sobbing to a tearful rage (not at me but at the circumstance that just unfolded) and threw a few items across the room in the opposite direction in that anger. I walked out after that, as the only thing left was more of the same from her.  I 100% knew she would not get physical with me or throw things AT me.  If I thought there was a 1% chance, I would have departed another way, to ensure my safety. 

Agree with bloomies bold text "Save Square"

You have my respect Square.  Please do what is best for you only and make certain DD is not in the same place as her father, when he gets the news you are done. She needs to keep herself safe from him also until his waters calm a bit from the FoA reality, which may take a fairly long period of time as he deals with the emotional eruption of the FoA emptiness that upwells within himself.

This was one of the most difficult things I have ever done, but we must when we know its time.  You are brave and smart.  You can do this.  Push through the fear but use your high intelligence to do it safely and quick. 

SoT

[escapingman]

Square,

Do you need to tell him in advance? It might be wise to tell him AFTER you leave. Maybe you could pick up the items from the house later, your safety is worth way more than any items and you don't owe him any explanations in advance.

[square]

Hi SoT and EM,

I'm hearing you and chewing over what you've both said. I agree safety is paramount. I don't think I am in great danger, though.

I will also suggest you not look at this as a "conversation".  This is a proclamation about yourself only!

SoT, I totally agree with you, and you were right to pick up on this. I already know that his response will be to demand I explain WHY, and I know it's a trap. He will not be asking in good faith to understand the reasons. He will simply put me in the position of defending my choice and of course my reasons will all be invalid and insufficient in his eyes. Not gonna play that game.

The issue is DD. I can't get this apartment done without her, not only due to my disability, but also due to her needing to co-sign the lease.

I feel VERY strongly that choosing to inform H before DD will have lifelong benefits to DD.

I feel that H's relationship with DD will be unaltered if I tell him first. If I tell her first, he may see her as "betraying" him (in a paranoid mindset), and that would be a permanant issue if so.

I also do not want to put her in the position of keeping a secret. Her personality in particular is not conductive to secrets. It wouldn't turn out well.

So I don't see any way around telling H first. And then I can do the final steps of moving out as quickly as possible after that.

Finally, his biggest trigger is me not talking to him, or in his eyes "ignoring him."

So, in my particular situation, I think I am safest having a conversation with him.

I also still feel most comfortable with the parked car as a venue. I think he does feel somewhat exposed in that location. We've had a few hard conversations there and I've felt much safer.

However, what you have both said has triggered me to make one key adjustment that I had not considered except for your input.

I was previously thinking that I would have to move all my stuff in order to move out. Now I realize that I can sleep in an empty apartment. I'm no princess, I can sleep on the floor with a blanket and pillow. Furthermore, I can order a cheap futon for next day delivery, so sleeping on the floor would be a one day situation anyway.

I don't know how long it will take to set up my electricity account and stuff but I'm a child of the 1900s and can play with sticks, do pushups, and count flowers on the wallpaper like we used to.

[Poison Ivy]

These are good points about why to tell H first. One of my children (both of whom are adults) has said she doesn't like being put in the middle of things involving her dad and me. If I were to tell her something that I hadn't told her dad, she would probably feel put in the middle.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Square,

Well done thinking through all these scenarios and making a plan that will work best for your needs in your departure. Time after departure will do its thing in allowing your PDh to deal with his FoA without you being present, and as you stated, you can retrieve your things.  Fully understood on your comments about DD. 

Please remember that the police are available if needed to accompany you to your home to retrieve your things if needed for your well-being when the time is right. I know someone who used a police escort to do just that and all went smoothly and quietly, which would not have been the case otherwise. 

SoT

[SeaBreeze]

Square, your plan is really coming together!

When I left ex-uNPDh last year, I took a few changes of clothes, my important documents, and the family photos. I ordered most of my furniture online and delivered via mail to my new apartment. Starting with rolled-up, vacuum-packed foam mattresses and boxed, self-assembly bedrails so my son and I had beds. It's amazing what you can order online and have mailed to the house these days!

Sending good vibes your way as you plot your course!

[bloomie]

square - there is logic and a wealth of experience with your unique circumstances in your planning and preparing. This is a huge step and you are staying focused on protecting both the heart and mind of your child, considering your H, and what is best for yourself as you move.

That is a lot when you are dealing with an adult partner who is limited and fearful.

I do still gently land on the encouragement to first put on your own oxygen mask and as you go forward to make saving yourself and your future a priority. By doing that, you create the greatest possibility for you and your dd to have a living space that is healthy, clear of the specter your H's difficulties, and filled with opportunity for better, stable days ahead.

I'm a child of the 1900s and can play with sticks, do pushups, and count flowers on the wallpaper like we used to.

You are envisioning a space where you can lay down your head and rest, that is filled with flowers to count and room for you to live free, simply, and invigorated. LOVE this! 

[Rebel13]

I was previously thinking that I would have to move all my stuff in order to move out. Now I realize that I can sleep in an empty apartment. I'm no princess, I can sleep on the floor with a blanket and pillow. Furthermore, I can order a cheap futon for next day delivery, so sleeping on the floor would be a one day situation anyway.

I did this once! To get out of my disordered mom's house. My new place had pretty thick carpet and I might have had a yoga mat or something similar. It was kind of an uncomfortable night, but the freedom was priceless. The movers brought my stuff the next day, and I never looked back.

I love all the great points that are being made in this thread! Everyone is rooting for you here, square.

[Call Me Cordelia]

One more for the cheering section. You're so close!

[MaxedOut]

Such a great update, Square.

This part is likely still weighing on you "He is very ill. He legitimately is struggling to function at all. He does think about suicide. He does not believe there is any place for him, any hope for him. I also know he has lost any problem solving skills. Another adult could maybe think of cleaning up the house and getting a roommate, or another solution, but I don't know."

You may recall some of the same dynamics with my undiagnosed BPSO (diagnosed with other significant mental illness, now physically quite disabled, heavily reliant on me, often has suicidal ideation and multiple attempts). I too have a traumatic past suicide experience.

I don't have answers but feel you deeply on this. I remind myself:
- I cannot control her reactions
- I am not responsible for another person's choice about their own and only life
- It is deeply unfair that I am told I would be responsible and am expected to regulate her emotional state when in crisis (especially since it usually comes with abusive behaviors)
- Without me/us she likely would not be here now
- Even with me here, she has overdosed several times
- Repeated worry about this, and close calls, end emotional blackmail has really damaged me and that's not OK

I don't actually have a lot of hope at this point that her quality of life will significantly improve, which is heartbreaking and also something I cannot control either. I don't know what might come of the problem solving/cleaning/taking care of anything. I think there is a chance she might actually do some of it. Or she might actually allow regular help, which she rejects. Or it all goes to hell.

Coming to terms with all of this has been a journey but I feel more clear on things these days. Marriage is not a suicide pact and at some point, you need to save yourself AND I need to save myself.

It sounds like your situation is not one where your partner is happy thanks to all your sacrifice (and even if that is the case, you don't get to burn out another person to stay comfortable). You have probably tried hard to help him feel better, find happiness. I know I have.

So how much of your/my one and only life gets spent in service of maybe making another person somewhat less miserable while absorbing abuse, negativity, etc.? And that's assuming the relationship/situation is making that person less miserable (which is a big assumption).

Anyway, fabulous news on the paperwork and about DD's career program.