What's the worst thing your PD has done (that led to NC)?

[JustKat]

I am probably not alone in saying it was more "death by a thousand cuts."

That was definitely the case with me. There wasn't a specific incident that led to me go NC. I had been holding all of her abuse inside me for 40+ years and was a volcano ready to erupt.

When it finally happened it was completely spontaneous. We had an argument over the phone and for the first time in my life, I called her out on her bad behavior. No one had ever taken her to task before and she didn't know how to handle it. She melted down and went infantile. Something inside me just said enough. I hung up on her and that was that.

[TwentyTwenty]

"You've become an evil person".

[lizzylou]

I grew up terrified of mother's violent rages. Her fights with Dad were awful. I witnessed some terrible stuff. When I was a teenager she attacked me and I ended up in hospital. Dad covered up for her. Then I got married, had kids, and she turned into a doting granny. I thought she was making amends. I thought she must be sorry for what happened when I was a child - though she never said sorry. Then my children grew up and she returned to her old manipulative, abusive ways. I confronted her about what happened when I was young and she denied it all. She said I was an evil liar - said the same to my husband and family.  My dad stood by her. The denial feels as bad as the original cruelty. I am really struggling with it.

[BettyGray]

Wow. Reading the replies leads me to the conclusion that we were raised by truly awful people.

Sidney, that is some horribly abusive crap to deal with. Nice churchgoing friends your mom has there, huh? Kind of shows how adept PDs are at garnering sympathy. What always makes me laugh is that they claim we are such awful people. Well....uh.... wouldn't that reflect poorly on the people who raised us? Like.....THEM???

Just Kathy - that how it happened for me. Honestly, I saw it coming, but I didn't- you know? In that moment, it kind kind of surprised me how utterly certain I was that I was DONE. DH didn't believe me at first. When I told him no, this is it, no more, he was shocked. And this was AFTER she called him "such a bastard" on the phone. I could tell she had been waiting to say something like that for years.

Danden -

   

I have felt like an outsider in my family all  my life, never being accepted or loved for myself. 

I have felt this way too. It only got more pronounced as I got older. I was the youngest. My older siblings seemed to resent my presence. Either that or they ignored me. I learned to be ok with being alone.

Hepatica - no words. I want to give you a big hug. The chaos these people create to avoid dealing with their own stuff is beyond comprehension l. It must take so much energy always being the victim, but they seem to get juiced from it while sucking the life out of us.

it was a new crisis practically everyday
[/quote]

Jolie40 - Yup. My FOO pretty much existed in crisis mode. That's not a sustainable way to live. Very often, the crisis was my oldest brother :  arrested, car crashes, DUIs (suspension of license which means my parents had to taxi him around for years), gambling debts and bookies threatening to break his legs, messy divorce where he threatened suicide, not taking his insulin so he wound up in the hospital. And that was just the one sibling. One crisis melted into another. The "other shoes" dropped like they were on an assembly line.

DistanceNotDefense- that is some bats—t crazy stuff. My sister actually spurred my NC by going NC with me, first. We had a big blowup because I dared talk about how our parents failed us. I was 100% honest with her. She flipped out, calling me names, accusing me of all sorts of things, accusing DH of turning me against all of them. Her last words to me (before she hung up on me mid-sentence - ever mature, that one!) were "Dont ever call or text me again!" I didn't think she even meant it. I tried sending an occasional text after that thanking her for doing some things for my parents that she didn't have to do. No answer. If there was an answer it was terse. Like one word.

Months went by. I still talked to my mom regularly and no mention of any of it. I thought possibly sis hadn't told her, but that seemed unrealistic. Finally, NM hinted at calling sis because she "hadn't heard from in in months" 
I told her I was respecting sis's wishes by not calling her. I figured  sis would be pissy for a bit then act like none of it ever happened. NM persisted in telling me " Family is the most important thing. You need to call her - she is really upset. She's your only sister..." It was clear whose side she was on.

LizzyLou- yes, the denial is mind-bending, and it's own form of cruelty. Up is down, sky is yellow and the sun is blue. They have no problem letting us feel we are crazy. We are evil. . Sadly, most of us start to believe this about ourselves. The mind games create their own wreckage in our romantic and friendly relationships.

Poet and Punk- I am so sorry your wedding day memories are tainted by their abhorrent behavior. That's some unforgivable stuff. EXACTLY the reason I did not have a wedding. That way, they couldn't ruin it. They ruined 2 subs' weddings, so I had fair warning. So sad.

Her calling you a son of a bitch is hilarious. Since that would make her ....the bitch?

TwentyTwenty- yes, "you've become an evil person." 
Well good, because I have been working on it. Those night classes in evil really paid off.

Blueberry Pancakes- that's some next level childishness. Why do weddings bring out the worst, most cruel behavior in PDs? Oh, right, they hate other people's happiness.

Honey- hating her since you were a baby, huh? That defies all reason. Obviously a confession.

Group hug, everyone.

[DistanceNotDefense]

When I was a teenager she attacked me and I ended up in hospital. Dad covered up for her. Then I got married, had kids, and she turned into a doting granny. I thought she was making amends. I thought she must be sorry for what happened when I was a child - though she never said sorry. Then my children grew up and she returned to her old manipulative, abusive ways. I confronted her about what happened when I was young and she denied it all. She said I was an evil liar - said the same to my husband and family.  My dad stood by her. The denial feels as bad as the original cruelty. I am really struggling with it.

I'm so sorry lizzylou. I'm dealing with similar strokes to what you are: denial, cruelty, family attacking my marriage, career, choices, and lifestyle.

You didn't deserve that treatment back then and you don't deserve the treatment now, your kids neither. A mother injuring you so you need to go to the hospital is not normal, it is awful. Denying it...awful. Calling you an evil liar, awful. You deserve better. It's not healthy.

Just remember that any accusation against you from people disordered like this is a confession. Perhaps your mother is the evil liar and she knows it.

Just Kathy - that how it happened for me. Honestly, I saw it coming, but I didn't- you know? In that moment, it kind kind of surprised me how utterly certain I was that I was DONE. DH didn't believe me at first. When I told him no, this is it, no more, he was shocked. And this was AFTER she called him "such a bastard" on the phone. I could tell she had been waiting to say something like that for years.

My DH is also in this stage. He has had such vile opinions, accusations, and rumors so covertly leveled at him. But he thinks he brought it on and it's his fault somehow, "Maybe if I just acted differently" That's where they get you. They've FOGged him good. It can be frustrating when I reach to him for validation that my FOO is wildly ill. The worst words I've gotten from him is "I can't even wrap my head around this, it is so....foul." I still don't think he gets fully how likely it is that FOO are out if my life for good.....and in huge part because of how they've treated both of us, not just me. It was also my moral impetus to protect him!

The power of the PD is mighty.

DistanceNotDefense- that is some bats—t crazy stuff. My sister actually spurred my NC by going NC with me, first. We had a big blowup because I dared talk about how our parents failed us. I was 100% honest with her. She flipped out, calling me names, accusing me of all sorts of things, accusing DH of turning me against all of them. Her last words to me (before she hung up on me mid-sentence - ever mature, that one!) were "Dont ever call or text me again!" I didn't think she even meant it. I tried sending an occasional text after that thanking her for doing some things for my parents that she didn't have to do. No answer. If there was an answer it was terse. Like one word.

Months went by. I still talked to my mom regularly and no mention of any of it. I thought possibly sis hadn't told her, but that seemed unrealistic. Finally, NM hinted at calling sis because she "hadn't heard from in in months" 
I told her I was respecting sis's wishes by not calling her. I figured  sis would be pissy for a bit then act like none of it ever happened. NM persisted in telling me " Family is the most important thing. You need to call her - she is really upset. She's your only sister..." It was clear whose side she was on.

Thanks! Every time someone points out to me how nuts it all is I'm like PHEW! You see it, too?! It's not just me. I'm not crazy. (Especially with FOGged, but supportive and on my side, DH). I can't believe this is my life. I seriously think about writing an anonymous memoir. There is so much more detail that I don't even share here, it is craaaazy.l

Liz1018 my PD sib cut me off in the same way actually, she just dropped me and stopped talking to me first. My NC with her was just an acceptance. I confronted her on the phone about it. She literally said "I just don't get much out of talking to you anymore." Years after leaving her alone, apparently that was the wrong choice too. There was no right choice clearly. She used that as fodder in our very last conversation we had together, over a year ago, in which she first denied that she cut me off... I pressed her, she gaslit, then said she didn't know what I was referring to....then when the gaslighting didn't work, said I deserved being cut off because I'm a mean person.

Of course I air this all out to other FOO because they had some similar observations and complaints about her. Uh oh! I broke the family rule I didn't know about. Everyone can complain about anyone else in the family, except Distance can't complain. Once Distance opens their mouth, it's everyone against Distance, they're a traitor, and it's fair game. Like your M liz1018, my M and other sib made it clear who they sided with in the most gaslighty, covert, non-confrontational, and passive-aggressive way possible.

Group hug, everyone.

I second this. So much.

Everyone here has, literally, been through the unimaginable and inconceivable in the minds of the majority of the population. We are survivors of mental and spiritual torture others couldn't even begin to fathom, unless they've escaped a cult.

You all deserve safety and peace, and to stay far away from the brokenness and malevolence.

[Mintstripes]

After a lifetime of abuse, my covert narc enabler mother STILL tried to push a relationship and play happy families with my abuser narc father. I became a mother and decided that's it. No more. She visited us ONCE and was creepily obsessed with my LO and refused to talk about anything. I was done. She chooses to live a delusion.

I made the decision to go NC once and for all, after on and off years of vvvvlc and NC with my GC brother after he betrayed my trust and went behind my back to give  information to FOO. I've been NC with him for over a year now.

None of them know where I live or have any way of contacting me.

[DaisyGirl77]

This question comes up a lot.  For me my going NC with my father's side of the family was the culmination of a lot of horrific things (see signature for details because it's so much even to recount & I don't want to flood myself).  I refuse to be in the same room as them.  They are horrible people.

Going NC with my uNM was also death by a thousand paper cuts.  She hated me when I was born.  She thought I'd be a doll she could take off the shelf & play with before returning me to said shelf where I'd just...play quietly?  Sleep?  IDK, but from remarks she's made over the years, she was completely unprepared for me having my own wants & needs as an infant.  This turned into a constant dripping of "you're so oversensitive/dramatic/etc." whenever I expressed my own thoughts.  I was constantly picked on for my body.  Anything "different" was harped on, mostly by my father who thought he was just being funny...until I ran from the table in tears.  Then it was "I'm sorry...you're too sensitive & you need to stop it."  There were so many explosions daily that I have a blend of several different unhealthy attachment types because of the treatment I got at their hands.  Those explosions also included knock down, drag out verbal fighting, slamming of doors, & until I was about 10, at least 5 times/day of what they called "spanking" but was really a beating because it involved wooden spoons &/or their bare hands on my butt.

They re-found Jesus when I was a preteen & that involved a lot of religious abuse on top of the physical, emotional, & mental abuse that had been going on for years.  I gained a ton of weight (I think so it was a physical cushion against my home life) early on & just kept packing on the pounds.  I used books to escape & to cope.  They usually gave me sweatshirt/pant sets because those were cheap compared to nicer clothes which came separately & cost twice as much.  "Because you're fat.  You cost too much."  The religious abuse was them telling me that me not wanting to go to church at 15/16 years old was "the devil attacking" me & they forced me to go.  They finally allowed me to stay home after I told them that this particular church they liked going to kept giving me headaches from all the speakers they used for the music.

I abandoned "god" as soon as I could.  They refused to listen to me when I said I was turning away from the Christian religions they raised me in, instead choosing to believe that I remained Christian even though I'd explicitly told them I wasn't any longer.  The religious abuse ended for the most part after they couldn't find a church.  But uNM continued on her religion path; eF abandoned it for the most part.  They'd sometimes pull out the "GOD IS DISAPPOINTED IN YOU!!!" bit when it suited them, but after I scoffed & turned it around on them ("Oh?  I'd think God is disappointed in you because of XYZ!" or "I didn't know you were God's mouthpiece!") they stopped.  The emotional, mental, & verbal abuse continued.

I tried SO MANY TIMES over the years to fix my relationship with uNM.  It was like pounding against a brick wall or shouting into the void.  Things repaired temporarily & then she'd return to her old things.  Repair, repeat.  Repair, repeat.

They (Sis1 & Sis2 + uNM) loved to claim they were [uNM's maiden name] family.  They got tshirts ordered with "It's a [last name] thing; you wouldn't understand" emblazoned on it.  They use it every chance they get, which is with major family gatherings.  I don't have this shirt because I never changed my last name after our parents divorced, so it's yet another covert way of shutting me out yet again.

The last straw for me was probably the stupidest thing.  5 years ago she said she wanted to do something different for Christmas Day.  Instead of making a fancy dinner, she suggested we all choose different restaurants & order food for us to "graze" (this was the specific word she used in the language we speak) throughout the day.  So I was suspicious but, okay, I'll play along.  She gathered me & my sisters...this week 5 years ago, actually, lol...& asked us which restaurants we'd chosen to get food from & what we were going to order from there.  My turn came up.  I said I was getting a few appetizers consisting of a variety plate & sliders so we'd all have something more filling to eat.  She asked me what I was getting for a meal.  "What meal?  You said you wanted to graze.  That's the word you used, so I'm getting appetizers we all can graze from throughout the day."  She blamed me for the misunderstanding.  I told her there was no misunderstanding.  If she wanted us to order meals to share from, she should've explicitly said so.  She didn't.  The only "misunderstanding" was her own for using the wrong damn word & misleading us.  I went NC after I told her that I was tired of her doing this shit, & she needed to issue an apology.  She gave me the Silent Treat for a week then showed up at my door demanding her house key back.

A few months later I learned she was smearing me to everyone because I'd remained friends with her exhusband after they divorced after less than a year of marriage.  She decided I was sleeping with him & I was just waiting for her to get out of the picture so I could have him all to myself...with no evidence.  I threw up when I heard that bit of news.  We are still friends; I value him & he values me, but we have never once had any sort of romantic attraction toward each other.

The first time we had to be in the same room after that was about 2 years later for Sis2's gender reveal party for her first child.  uNM had already arrived.  I was one of the last few to get there.  I was nervous & kinda scared because I didn't know what to expect.  There were no words beyond "Hi" but I was told that everyone in the room could feel her absolutely outsized anger toward me.  It was frightening, & I spent the whole party making sure I was around several other people at all times so there was no opportunity for her if she wanted it.  Sis2 said she had several of her invites ask what was up with uNM because they felt it & were scared for me after the party.

My sisters & uNM wore the above tshirt I described for Sis2's baby shower.  They chose to cluster on one end of the room while I sat at the other.  They made it clear that I wasn't included in their little 3 Musketeers thing they'd had going for well over 20 years, & I'd given up.  But several people remarked on this weird behavior of theirs & the dynamic they observed during that shower & expressed sympathy to me.  A couple of these people were my friends my sister had invited because they had been so helpful to her with her first move & getting her set up with household items.  They knew of the dynamic because I'd told them, but it was their first time actually SEEING it for themselves.  They told me I'd understated it & were hurt & angry for me.

I still am NC with uNM, but I do see her once or twice a year for my nephews' birthdays or Christmas & such.  We exchange pleasantries & keep busy with the kids.  So far it's worked.  My oldest nephew (12) hasn't noticed we don't talk, so I take that as a major win.

The NC with my uNM is permanent.  She's chosen her path.  I've chosen mine.  We are never going to find our middle ground, & she will never recognize the damage she did to me & my sisters by raising us the way she & our father did.

[BettyGray]

Distance,
Reading your post about your sister made me feel a little less alone and a lot more sane, too.

As for a memoir- I did write one, in 35 years worth of journals. I started writing at 15  because I liked writing and had read it was good for expressing feelings. Over time, as things got worse with FOO, it became my confidante and often, my only friend.

Then it turned into more of a record-keeping of their offenses. Part of me thinks I write it down so that I wouldn't feel as crazy. Like "proof" that these incidents occurred. They tried the "that-never-happened-I would-never-say -something-like-that-you're-imagining things" crap all the time.

When I read the "proof" now, I applaud my younger self for having the foresight to do this. But it also makes me sad - nobody should have to write things down to prove to their family things happened. I remember being so sad and angry about it all.


Another thing was proving any accusation from them as false. They called me selfish. I made sure I was generous and humble. I made a track record of it. But they always talked about how "thoughtful" I was. Mixed messages.

Which was it, selfish and a spoiled brat (a popular one with sis - she even had a college boyfriend, with whom I was a classmate, yell at me (for what, I can't recall). He said my sister was right - I WAS a spoiled brat. 

I was so devastated by this I remember bawling in a campus bathroom. A complete stranger came in, heard me crying, hugged and comforted me for like, half an hour. It's burned in my brain. These memories stick.
Nevertheless, I went about the work of being selfless to a fault. I never asked for anything, never threw a fit when I didn't get my way. I just faded not the background.


They said I thought I was "better than them," I worked on being unflappably down-to-earth. 
They said I was a weakling, I got in shape. On it went ...for decades.

If only I had known that their accusations were pure projection. If only I had known that nothing I did to prove myself to them didn't really matter. To them, I was what they said I was. And that was that. No wonder they freaked out when nothing they said came true and I moved on with my life, far away from them.

In my last conversation with my sis, I dared observe that in our family there was an unspoken rule that we were not to challenge our parents, talk about the repercussions of their abuse (what repercussions?), we were NEVER to talk about our big family secret because it never happened, right?
This sent her into a new level of rage with which I was not familiar. I had always been a little scared of her bullying, but this was cuh-ray-zeeee. I exposed the truth and was like my words sent her into complete meltdown.
She screamed was unable to have an "adult conversation."  More projection.

You and I could probably swap sister stories for hours. I bet our experiences run creepily parallel.

[BettyGray]

Daisy,

OMG, this:

They got tshirts ordered with "It's a [last name] thing; you wouldn't understand" emblazoned on it.  They use it every chance they get, which is with major family gatherings.

Wow, that is the epitome of  tribal behavior. Cult much?

This is in no way a judgement on Christianity, but I am so thankful my parents are not "born again" evangelicals. They were churchgoing when I was younger, but are agnostic/atheists, but told us we are free to believe what we want.

[DistanceNotDefense]

The NC with my uNM is permanent.  She's chosen her path.  I've chosen mine.  We are never going to find our middle ground, & she will never recognize the damage she did to me & my sisters by raising us the way she & our father did.

I read your entire story too, Daisy, and I am breathless over what you went through. Also can't believe the lies spun as truths by your grandmother that your FOO was so willing to believe and tiptoe around.

When FOO is willing to believe the worst about you based on the testimony of one family member, without questioning it, (as in my case too), it really makes you realize they could be horrible people, doesn't it? You don't want to, but you have to consider it and at least get the hell out of there first even if you're not sure.

I'm glad your father apologized. Your M, on the other hand, needs to grow the *@#& up!!!!

You and I could probably swap sister stories for hours. I bet our experiences run creepily parallel.

The parallels I ran into here on Out of the FOG between my uNPD/uASPD sib and others' PD FOO was what really opened my eyes. It is definitely so validating to see parallels, and to realize these aren't just "quirks" from a damaged sib that must be tolerated, as is my unspoken "family rule" - it's extreme dysfunction, destruction, a disordered personality, and an intricate act to keep everyone under her power! And it seems like most deal with PD parents as the main damaging figures in their lives, but my sister takes the cake.

When you talk about proving every accusation on you false to them, I totally relate. I was told I was much too sensitive and weird as a child so I worked hard all my life compensating to be tough, independent to the extreme, having no visible needs, well-adjusted, hiding all emotions or complaints, and being not *too* weird (the one thing I've failed at, I am irrevocably eccentric and there's nothing to be done about that, who am I kidding.)

It was like I was the scapegoat, invisible child,  and the hero of the family all rolled into one (hero later in life when I became the only one with a career, business, manageable income and a marriage). Maybe you can relate. I was mocked as brutally honest and cutting, but then the next day, my sweetness and kindness were valued. I cried too much and was too sensitive, the next day I was praised as the most brave and courageous. One family member would start and then all the rest would gang up and chime in.

My M would vacillate between saying I was just too weird and odd to ever have a normal life, to then also telling me in private that she thought I would be the only kid in the family who would have a normal life, I was the only well-adjusted one. Which is it???? In college, my mother once told me in private that out of all her kids she saw me as the only one who wouldn't "land a long term relationship with anyone" on account of how "unconventional" I was. Code for weird, strange, and unlikable, I realize now, just a new word for it - also because I was androgynous and didn't try to be as feminine as my sisters (and her). This, during a talk where I bewailed not having a romantic relationship. I was hurt and devastated by her words and said that to her in the moment. She didn't apologize and kind of watched me impassively, as if it was the gospel truth she had just spoken and I just needed the time to swallow it, and then left. I remember my friend came over to my apartment afterward and cooked a meal to console me.

Fast forward years later, I'm the only one in a stable relationship of any sort, and I'm married. (M has never dated since divorce decades ago, PD sib has NEVER dated, other younger sib has been in a string of abusive relationships and flings, brother has failed marriage and no girlfriend since). Hmmmmm.

In my last conversation with my sis, I dared observe that in our family there was an unspoken rule that we were not to challenge our parents, talk about the repercussions of their abuse (what repercussions?), we were NEVER to talk about our big family secret because it never happened, right?
This sent her into a new level of rage with which I was not familiar. I had always been a little scared of her bullying, but this was cuh-ray-zeeee. I exposed the truth and was like my words sent her into complete meltdown.
She screamed was unable to have an "adult conversation."  More projection.

Yes, lots of similar shades here. It wasn't my last conversation with her, but one where I did confront her about her behavior, that her mask "slipped" in the same way you describe your sister doing.

She was claiming my husband attacked her in the car while we were all together, and that I "sat back and did nothing because I enjoyed it" (sounds more like the confessions of someone with ASPD am I right?) That's not what happened, I told her. He had only asked her a question about something that sounded like she had some racist/prejudiced ideas about black people and how they live, and wanted clarity, and she got super defensive. And actually, *she* had verbally attacked me in response.

When I told her that, her voice turned into this very weird, creepy, keening shriek or wail, like a child, but there was no real emotion behind it, it was almost like an act or when those birds in empty cornfields play injured when you get too close to their nests. "I want your husband to stop what he's doing. He does it to make me feel bad and he enjoys it I want him to STOP!!!!! STOP HIM! HE HURTS MEEEE"

I didn't buy it and I responded "My husband is not a dog I can ask to heel. He is a human adult. And so are you. If you have an issue with him you can talk about it between yourselves. The only person who was attacked in that car that day was me and I've dealt with it pretty well considering." I still apologized for his "behavior." (Apologized for him being a reasonable human being I guess.) I was still FOGged then.

It wasn't enough, it will never be enough. She was already alienating me and after that conversation, the alienation only deepened to punish me further for seeing through her mask, which she would deny and gaslight me for later too.

[Fortuna]

My mom is most likely a covert Narc, so there a lot of guilt ripping, manipulation, poor me syndrome and so forth. She never did a big huge thing. I simply got the point where the boundaries weren't working. I tried LC, VLC and VVVVLC. I tried grey rock. I tried laying  down boundaries. But the actual event that took it to NC wasn't that huge. My mother's brand of PD is the thousand cuts variety.

It was a plane ticket, followed by a phone call.
I told she could stay for 3-4 days. (The previous year she had fought tooth and nail to get it longer, saying she NEEDED 5-6 days, the flight was so LONG and EXPENSIVE. When I refused she tried to guilt trip me because she hadn't seen the grandchildren in a year (Her choice after an ultimatum where she wanted to take my kids anywhere anytime with no input from me AFTER she'd managed to lose one of them at an amusement park and didn't seem to care) I had told her it was 3-4 days not to exceed 3 nights.) She didn't argue. I foolishly thought we were making progress.

So she books the plane ... for 5 days. There had been no checking phone call to make sure the dates and times worked as there had been every other year, only a message from here where she sighed into the phone about calling my other phone. No message on the other phone. So I text her back, tell her I hope the tickets are refundable, there seems to be a mistake.

She calls I let know there must have been a mistake since she booked for 5 days (I was trying to let her have a way out) She dug in ,saying it was less than 96 hours. So we circled around me saying i said days not hours and her trying to legalese her way through this. Calls me manipulative when I reiterated what I told her, in writing. She buys cheap so the tickets were non-refundable, so I decide I'll just deal with it this year and be a freaking lawyer next year, so I relent.

Only she doesn't. She had some kind of script in her head that she had to get through. So she tries to guilt trip me by saying she knows so many kids that just beg their mothers to come for the holidays and just goes on about it. No names, just people (In her head I'm assuming). I have enough coping skills now to realize what shes trying to do and call her on it. I tell her "The I'm sorry I'm a bad daughter." She called me immature. Then she starts cycling though all the things she thinks I think. That I don't want her to come, that I don't love her, that I want her dead. My assumption is that she wanted me to grovel and tell her how much I lover her and want her to come and  so on, but I decided not to get sucked in and just let her know I wanted her to come 'on the days I said were okay' .  It goes into this circular argument where I parrying her emotions with facts. Then my daughter comes back home, so I say ok she's home gotta go bye, real quick, because I finally realize that I don't want anyone talking to me like that in front of my kids. My mom's last words were "you had me on speaker!"

After that I realized I didn't want to have to play lawyer to get my mother to be a decent human being. She is in her seventies. If she didn't know by now, It was not my job to teach her. I realized that when I was able to just stop reacting, she'd move to one of my kids. I realized that life was too short to spend time with someone you didn't trust to be alone with your kids. It was also the first time for her escalating a few things. Before she'd call and confirm waiting for an actual yes (usually during a hectic time when I didn't have my calendar, but she'd still call), Growing up she was always firm on no name calling, yet she now thought it okay to call me names. She just had to find a way around my rules proving to me she didn't give a good gosh darn about me, my needs, or my desires as her host. I made a pro and con list of how to handle it and I went NC after her visit (didn't want an incident of her showing up at the door like she had the right to be there since the ticket was paid for.)

I'm about a year in now and I don't think there is anything she can say to me that would make me trust her again. The only possible way I see her would be to act as a meat shield if my kids have an interest in meeting her when they are adults and have solid mechanisms in place to battle the narc behavior.

[Poison Ivy]

I never went entirely NC with my late father-in-law, but here's what resulted in my decision to go VLC (no in-person visits for almost the final 10 years of his life).

FIL was often negative but seemed to reserve a special "meannness" for me. The last time I saw him was Thanksgiving 2009. His wife, my ex-husband's mom, was sliding into Alzheimer's disease. Our dog had just had surgery, to amputate one of her toes. She was with us. I was trying hard to stay calm and to be kind and respectful to MIL and FIL. I helped with the meal prep but tried to include MIL in safe ways. At some point, FIL made a comment about shooting the dog. When we were eating, I did something (I don't know what), and FIL banged down the gravy container and said something rude to me. I got very upset immediately but didn't make a huge ruckus. My husband made no attempt to protect me from his father's bad behavior. On the way home or after we were home, I talked to my husband about the situation, and he kind of acknowledged what had happened but not very much. I wrote FIL a letter. He didn't respond to me but talked to my husband and basically denied saying the things he had said at Thanksgiving. I decided I didn't need the stress of seeing FIL again.

[Stardust1982]

Thank you for your valuable responses to my thread. You have NO IDEA how valuable your stories are. I have decided to go No Contact (for good) and the best thing about it is that I do not feel any guilt or shame. Some people here treated NC as a natural consequence of the PDs' abuses and neglect. It is actually normal for us, adult children of PDs to separate from such individuals. So, if NC is a natural consequence of repeated abuse over the years, why would guilt and shame even come up? Yesterday I had this realization after hearing how terribly my parents talk about me and other people in their lives (basically, everyone they interact with are awful people who are out to get them).

I'll read this thread again to cement my NC decision.

[Starboard Song]

Good luck, Stardust.

Remember your goal, here. You aren't trying to teach anyone a lesson, or improve them. You aren't attempting to seek redress of grievances. Your goal is to increase the peace in your life, and to define a space in which you can thrive, free from threat, intimidation, or any FOG. And you have come to believe that they actively battle against those goals.

Always proceed in the manner that brings you peace.

Be good. Be strong.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Thank you for your valuable responses to my thread. You have NO IDEA how valuable your stories are. I have decided to go No Contact (for good) and the best thing about it is that I do not feel any guilt or shame. Some people here treated NC as a natural consequence of the PDs' abuses and neglect. It is actually normal for us, adult children of PDs to separate from such individuals. So, if NC is a natural consequence of repeated abuse over the years, why would guilt and shame even come up? Yesterday I had this realization after hearing how terribly my parents talk about me and other people in their lives (basically, everyone they interact with are awful people who are out to get them).

I'll read this thread again to cement my NC decision.

Yay Stardust!!!! 

I totally second Starboard below, too. It's control over your life, finally, is what it's all about, so you can have peace and heal. Expecting, hoping, or maneuvering for FOO to change is the codependent approach. I think my NC choice could possibly bring about difficult but healing changes to some of my FOO but I can't hold my breath.

And you're right: guilt and shame shouldn't come up, but just be forewarned, it probably will. But think of it as a withdrawal symptom or a craving for what you once had that you now realize is no longer good for you. They will get lesser. You will probably have cravings (guilt/shame). But if you work through them to the other side, and never forget that NC is a natural consequence of such behavior, you'll start seeing changes in yourself that you never thought possible before.

[Stardust1982]

@Starboard Song, @DistanceNotDefense you're both right. NC should be done for own's peace of mind. I need to remember this.

And I understand that the withdrawal symptoms would be bad in the beginning, but I am willing to go through that. It's an addiction after all-our bond to PD parents.

Have a peaceful week, guys

Have a peaceful week, guys!

[Sidney37]

I am so sorry that we all have dealt with these experiences.  What I have found as I read these, is that I end up telling myself "of course they should be NC" as I read others' explanations of their situation, but still I question if I have made the right decision.  I've been NC for over a year.  I haven't seen my parents for 3 Christmases if you include this one and I still wonder if I've made the right decision.  It's amazing how they have trained us to think these things are normal.  Hugs  to all of you.  And big thanks to all of you as well.  This board has changed my life and continues to remind me that we didn't deserve this abuse.   

[BettyGray]

Starboard.
Such wise words about goals.

Remember your goal, here. You aren't trying to teach anyone a lesson, or improve them. You aren't attempting to seek redress of grievances. Your goal is to increase the peace in your life, and to define a space in which you can thrive, free from threat, intimidation, or any FOG. And you have come to believe that they actively battle against those goals.

Always proceed in the manner that brings you peace.

This should be posted in the front page of the NCpages. It's very eye opening & pin-pointedly accurate.

[BettyGray]

Distance,

Excellent comparison to addiction. I got sober about a year before I went NC. Each time for health reasons, and no questioning my decision, once made. I was 100% sure of my new path, and my life is 1000x better now.

After my sister had her last hissy fit, I began to research and learned about BPD. This checked all of the boxes, if undiagnosed. I had always just thought she was a self-absorbed bully. But her  reactions just got weirder over time - more extreme.

Unfortunately for me, she wasn’t the only unstable one. Both parents (extremely covert Nmom, dad somewhere between NPD, BPD and worse (pedophilia), oldest brother manic depressive-not sure if his diagnosis was accurate) and probably has PTSD, other brother - just angry, detached - possible narc.

The worst part is we all believed we had the perfect family, that we were “close.” My parents were well-liked and respected in the community. At some point, though, you grow up , start to think for yourself and realize something doesn’t add up.

Wow, the vacillation part is so spot on. I was told that I was simultaneously:

- Wise beyond my years/didn’t know anything (one of my mom and sister’s favorites was “when did you get so wise?” They acted so surprised when I said something they seemed wise.

- Weirdo (a “damn nut” was my dad’s line) . I am proudly weird, as is DH. Thankfully we found one another. But to the world, we are pretty normal.
My sister never understood me. She thought I was super-weird. The next day I was “trying too hard to fit in (I was also aware to never be too weird).

It was like I was the scapegoat, invisible child,  and the hero of the family all rolled into one (hero later in life when I became the only one with a career, business, manageable income and a marriage). Maybe you can relate. I was mocked as brutally honest and cutting, but then the next day, my sweetness and kindness were valued. I cried too much and was too sensitive, the next day I was praised as the most brave and courageous. One family member would start and then all the rest would gang up and chime in.

This is SO my situation! I am the only one with a career (that I love), a business, and a lasting marriage (22 years and counting!). 4 divorces between 2 brothers, sister is 51 and never married, never in a long-term relationship. Mom wouldn’t allow it, after all - no “outsiders” were truly welcome in our family. They all got chilly receptions. I felt especially sorry for my sisters-in-law. Mom and sis would be cordial to their faces, and then talk trash about them after they left.

Out of 4 kids, only I have a “normal” life. The other 3 were notorious quitters at just about everything they attempted. Not me. I doubled down on seeing things through to the end, working through hard stuff, and most of all, keeping my word.

Code for weird, strange, and unlikable, I realize now, just a new word for it - also because I was androgynous and didn't try to be as feminine as my sisters (and her).

Oh, how I hated this one. I had many demeaning comments thrown around about how I needed to be more feminine - especially the way I dressed. Like I was a doll they could dress up. I wore weird black platform shoes. They told me I should be wearing ballet flats & “flattering” outfits. They picked on my hair, saying I needed to grow it out and get highlights and a perm. When I would visit, was fully inspected as soon as I walked in the door. Haircut, makeup (or lack thereof), type and fit of clothing, style of shoes, jewelry (or lack thereof). I became incredibly self-conscious about my looks. I felt I had to look perfect.

I was also told I was never going to be able to take care of myself. After all, I didn’t even know how to cook! (I told my mom when I was 14 that I had no interest in cooking and that I was going to marry someone who cooks, which I did - he is a superb cook). They all seemed so shocked when I turned out to be quite independent and competent at taking care of myself.

That’s awful about your husband. They love scapegoating our spouses. Of course, with my DH, they knew they would lose any fight they started. He is way smarter, can control himself and his temper around unstable people, sees right through them, and has nothing to lose. He’s a lawyer, too, and knows how to win an argument.

I know that shriek,too. Just a total rage vomit on us for just saying what needs to be said. What would be clear to a normal person, well... it just doesn’t work that way with them.

Poison Ivy - “the gravy incident” - I couldn’t help picturing this temper tantrum in my head and thinking - why are they all such babies? Why do they have to cause a scene, no matter how embarrassing to us or themselves?

Fortuna, I read your post and though your mom  showcases what, to normal people, would be insane, extreme behavior, it  is just another day with PDs.
My FOO always invited themselves to stay with me, with no regard to my work schedule. I was supposed to stop everything and entertain them for 3 days (my limit). And Nmom always wanted us to visit for at least 5 days. Like, spend my vacation time with them and 2!days traveling. I am self-employed. I don’t make money when I don’t work. On top of traveling expenses it was a lot. Just once a year for 20 plus years through lots of fog . The vacations I could have taken in place of those awful visits!!

[mimzy]

I've been NC with my entire FOO for nearly 3 years. The relationship between me and my UBPD mother & EF came to a head when my mother and I had a terrible fight that escalated when I tried to JADE. (FYI - it doesn't work.) She ended up striking me on the face.

Around the same time, EF kept telling me how he regretted giving my husband his blessing to marry me - 15 years ago at the time! Mind you, this was while my husband and I were experiencing a terrible chapter in our marriage and my father's remarks did nothing but pour gasoline over the fire. (It led to me lashing out at DH.) Through marriage counseling I realized my father should never have said that. Rather, he should have voiced his concerns when DH asked for his blessing. Speak now or forever hold your peace, right?

When I let EF know that what he said harmed my marriage and that he owed DH an apology, he turned around and blamed everything on me. He then said I owed EF an apology! I was hurt but not surprised. After all, this scapegoating has happened all my life. It's the price I've had to pay if I expect to be part of the tribe: take the entire blame or be banished. This time, I did the banishing.

In a brief, polite email, I told my parents I needed time to heal from childhood traumas and was taking as much time as I needed. EF responded by CC'ing all my siblings, saying I've been exhausting and that I "shouldn't bother coming back unless I apologize".

Since then, my parents have gone to our priest who married us and demanded he intervene. (Our priest didn't.) My father also exercised his influence over my 90 year-old grandmother to the point where she wrote me a letter saying she could no longer have a relationship with me unless I came crawling back to my parents. I wrote her a polite letter back saying no thank you.

Since then, DH and I have been blessed when a second child. Our marriage is stronger than ever and I am so grateful to have gotten Out of the FOG.