Breaking point

[escapingman]

I have really reached breaking point, when you don't think she can go lower she does. Yesterday she shouted at me, told me I make her life miserable, told me to pack my bag, to get out of her country, call the estate agent and that she want a divorce. Today she is turning the kids against me, bribing them with that she is taking them to the Zoo and to stay away in a hotel. Telling them I am the nastiest dad in the world that is no coming with them, kids now turning on me how I can be so mean and not go away with them. I am supposed to just drop work, no notice, she doesn't work so no other income. I had already said I might be able to book something but needed to check with work, but she couldn't wait, she needed to set me up.

I honestly don't think I will survive much longer unless I get away. Hearing her false voice with her false words and lies just make my stomach turn. Sick of hearing her lying to the kids about me, obviously she has a knack with words so she always wins any argument - and why would the kids think their mum would lie to them? I know I will lose my kids if I stay, if I go I might have a chance. I am struggling to work, office is closed so doing all work from home with her around 24/7 harassing me, standing over me, in and out of my room, criticizing me, ridiculing me. I have left twice already this year, but been conned to come back. Only took days this time before she started the abuse again.

I don't know what to do. Help!

[square]

It sounds horrible, just awful. What an intolerable situation.

It sounds like you want to leave and she wants you to leave (except for the later hoover). What are the factors that are at play in your situation?

[Starboard Song]

Your wife is saying that separation and divorce are ahead. Whatever else you decide to do, that statement means it is time to lawyer up and begin very careful documentation. You also need a trusted friend: someone with no chance at all of romantic attachment for you. That trusted friend can be your compass as you navigate this.

Write down your goals. Write down your values. Write down your fears.

The decisions ahead are all yours. We can't tell enough to know exactly what you should do, but an attorney, a friend, and good documentation will make you perform better on any path that lies ahead.

Be good. Be strong.

[Free2Bme]

escaping man,

This is difficult, but I would be casual (even though you are very upset) with the children and calmly explain to them that you would like to have come but could not get off work, they'll be going on trip with their mother, and you will be there when they return, with love and hugs.  Don't blame or bash your wife, just be matter of fact about it.  Your children see her unhinged behavior (unfortunately), and will come to their own conclusions about mom.

Meanwhile, I would use the time when family is gone to decompress a bit and consult with an attorney.  Find out what your rights and options are.  I would also be recording these episodes (if it is allowable) so you can prove her instability.  Your children will need you to be a stable parent regardless of what happens, but especially if you divorce.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your replies.

Now she is hell bent on me apologizing for setting her off yesterday, soon she will be begging me to come with on this trip. Kids are already guilt tripping me into it. I have no intention in sitting in a car with her, that is a disaster waiting to happen. Last time we did a long drive she attacked me whilst I was driving leaving bruises all over my arm.

As for recordings, I have been recording on and off for a year, I have been  writing down incidents as well, also took photos of my arm after said incident above. I have on recording when she is threatening to murder me, when she is shouting at the kids, I think even hitting them is on recording. My worry about using it is that she will step up her own accusations and with the way she can lie herself out of any trouble I am worried I will be the one ending up in trouble whatever I have.

I genuinely don't think she wants a divorce, she just want to hurt me as much as possible. That's a shame as I crave one.....

[Free2Bme]

I understand your reluctance to go on the trip with all the crazymaking, it's a train wreck coming.  I'm not sure of the ages of your children but if they are pre-teen or older you could sit everyone down family meeting style and state your concerns about being on long car ride after the last episode.  Tell kids that if she insists on taking them that you cannot stop her, but that you do not want any drama, so you will plan to stay home.

Before I divorced, I had reached a breaking point in regards to yelling, screaming fits in the car on the way to church.  I told my H and the children that I would be taking a separate car so I could ride in peace, and they could chose who they wanted to ride with.  The kids chose me.......... it was

I'm glad to hear you are documenting.  Make sure you don't give her anything to report on you about, do whatever you have to do to be self-controlled so she has nothing to use against you.  I would duplicate and secure the recordings, photos, etc.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your input. Problem is that anything that has happened, she denies. Even this attack on me whilst driving, she says it was me attacking her. How stupid is that? Why would I attack a passenger in the car whilst driving? My kids are almost teens, SG can see a bit but GC worships the ground of her. If we went in two cars I can assure you she manipulate them both to go with her.

I am doing my best to stay calm and do medium chill but sometimes I lose it. I am not proud when ut happens but how can you stay calm for days or even weeks when someone is constantly poking you with a stick trying to provoke you?

[square]

I can't. I wouldn't go. It would be a nicer trip for everybody.

As for the parental alienation, you'll just have to stay calm and keep the long term in mind. Kids might think you're a bad father today but if you can stay calm and not get sucked into the war, at least the SG is likely to change how they see it as they mature over time.

Stay strong for the kids.

[Starboard Song]

As for the parental alienation, you'll just have to stay calm and keep the long term in mind.

This is such a good point. Stay relaxed and understand this is a long-term situation. You will not be able to make everything right at this moment, but you can stay true to yourself over time for those kids. Be very patient with them.

[JustKeepTrying]

I think you have an opportunity here.  I am reading that you are ready for a divorce but worried about the outcome?  The way she can turn it on and turn it off - all makes you worried when you go to court.  But until you talk to a lawyer, you will never know your options.  You have documentation so when she is away, take it with you and make a plan.  Interview a couple of attorneys if that would help.  Take that week to plan.  Make copies of all the paperwork.  Do what you need to leave and take the time to do so

Tell the kids you can't get off work.  Calm your wife down and send her off in as good a manner as possible and then take every moment to create a better future for you and your children.

He used extreme physical intimidation on me.  I was gone in two days with kids in tow.  Only the clothes on our backs.  I have never regretted it.  I regret not doing it earlier.  Yeah, there are problems but I would not have survived.  Keep your kids and your future in mind as you plan your next steps.

[escapingman]

I doubt she will actually go if I don't come with, she will blame me in some way and then stay at home and sulk. I suppose it all depends on what mood she is in when it comes to it. I find it extremely hard when she can go on for a full day just ranting about everything I do and complain about everything, telling the kids how useless I am and how selfish I am and so on, and then just like she turns a switch and suddenly she is in victim mode, trying to be nice and expects me do forget it all and do whatever to please her. I just can't do it anymore, the damage for the kids to listen at all her complaints, I dread to think, but how do you protect them when she just doesn't get it and doesn't stop? When you get her to assassinate my character for hours on end, just because I bought the wrong cheese? I don't think anyone would believe me if I told the stories, I am so used to them so I even think it's kind of normal now.

I have tried to read up on all the laws surrounding divorce here, at the moment there is no other way than to file a petition and blame it on her. That won't go down well as she is blind to her faults. However, there might be a change in law later this year with no fault divorce. It would be much easier if I could just say I fallen out of love with her and that's it, no court battles (if she tries to defend herself). It seems pretty straight forward with assets almost always gets divided 50/50, but my concern is the children. If I p*ss her off she do anything to stop me from seeing them, she would come up with any lie. I have found a family solicitor that says they have specialists in divorces including NDP people, I am planning to contact them when I am ready. Just so worried she will find out in one way or another, would be my luck someone she knows works there.

I have lost my temper several times, not much lately since I got out of the worst fog, but before I didn't have a clue and I must have had bad fleas. We were fighting every day, I tried everything to please her and to get out of the bad books. Looking back at it I wonder how I could be so stupid. Why did I try so hard with someone only interested in themselves?  I can see my life how it should be, I am desperate to get there. I am excited about the prospect of being able to make my own decisions without having to defend them or having them shot down, just imagine painting a wall brown just because I can....

Thanks for all your advice, finding this forum was so valuable for me. I found it in the right time after first reading all about narcissism, then all about narcissistic victims, trauma bond, PTSD and the rest. Now I have all the information, just need to use it wisely and with your help I might actually be able to make myself free.

[escapingman]

Really tired of this, trying my best to keep the peace for the kids - but everything I do or say that is not to her satisfaction is met with a complaint under her breath. She asks if I have any meeting planned for today, and I answer yes I have and tell her the time, she immediately complains as she wanted a lift to an appointment exact that time and makes out as if I planned to have the meeting just to not have to take her. Then having lunch with her and the kids, she asks me a question about something really trivial, I answer but she thinks I am wrong, I say I am not sure but I thought it was the answer I gave and she just slaps her own hand as she always do and says "silly me". How do you actually manage to get along with someone that only finds faults and feel so sorry for herself for the smallest little thing? I don't think it is even possible to do this short term for the kids, I need out and quick. Will probably try keep it together as long as they are off school, but then I have to go. It's like being married to a two year old.

[square]

You can't really get along but the key is to stop caring.

To take her pronouncements as seriously as you would some crazy person on the street yelling something at you.

She has a problem with you having a meeting when she wanted a lift? Lol, whatever. I use MC all the time but when my H is really laying into me I might finally say something like, "yup, my tarot cards told me last week you'd need a lift, so I started my plot right then." Said with the same pleasant expression and tone as my general MC. Yeah, I'm a jerk. It helps me keep an even keel. Usually he will squawk something, storm off, then return long enough to say "I think you ARE plotting against me" and storm off again.

That may not work for you but it's just an example of keeping calm. For me, the mild amusement keeps me calm, and frustrates but does not really escalate H. (Ignoring him is the thing that escalates him so that is not an option for me). It might escalate things for you but maybe you can find some way to emotionally disengage and become unperturbed by it.

Above all, remember: it's the rantings of a crazy person, nothing more. And physically leave the situation if needed.

[escapingman]

I did stop caring, I don't really care what she says - but when it is done in front of the kids and she tries to make out every little thing I do is designed to be selfish and mean. If I say nothing I lose as they believe her, if I say something I lose as she will start a fight that I can't win.

[square]

You're not going to win (with the kids) in the moment. You win in the long term by being stable, calm, boundaried dad. Keep your integrity.

And you DO win in the moment by keeping your integrity because YOU know you kept it together.

She does this because it works on you. There really is something about the inner mindset, though. She is trying to dictate reality: this is what happened (a terrible injustice rather than a minor disappointment) and this is why (because your father is a horrible person out to ruin our lives rather than I failed to properly communicate and plan).

You feel defensive because she is dictating that false reality to the kids.

You can't win at her game. You can't shout louder that it was her fault and not yours. Well, you can, but you won't win.

But you can win at the long game. The kids may be confused but they will note that dad stayed calm and kept it together while mom lost it. It may take years and years to understand but they notice.

The kids will also appreciate if you check in with them and make sure they are okay. Don't make it about you, just them.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your very good post square.

I have done some reflection and although I know I need out, I need to play the game short term. She is about to lose it completely, and she is upsetting the kids, especially SG, but I will stay calm and let her ruin it for herself. If I don't fight back, and don't pander to her she will not know what to do. It's all about me managing to control myself, If I can do that I will win. I decided to take some time off work and to do things with all of them, for the sake of the kids, but also for me, not for her. If she looses it when we are out, its her loss, as long as I can keep cool and ignore it, not my problem. I am having an amazing relation with my kids, when she is not with us, I am not going to let her ruin that.

[tragedy or hope]

What I don't understand is the "advice" to quickly rush to divorce. What about a legal separation, which would include protecting finances and seeing your own children without them being pawns. We tend to think of only our own happiness at times and sometimes are convinced the children are better off... I don't know if that is true....

Before people pile on me in disagreement... you have time. You can go slow and be careful. You can look at options for yourself and your children. You are not bound to act immediately. In fact acting in a state of chaos  can have consequences you do not wish to happen.

You have children, do you want to leave them too? In the state she seems to be in, perhaps the kids will suffer in more ways. I believe we are attracted to people because of their decency not personality problems. You were not wrong for choosing her, and will not be wrong if you figure a way to work this out.

Perhaps a good therapist, minister, close friend can give you some perspective. This site is full of information. You will find much support to throw in the towel and just leave, but that is a life changing decision for you and your children.

Because our  lives have become so small during the pandemic, the worst has come out of many people who could normally cope better. Lets not forget the idea of forgiveness and understanding. I am not saying what is wrong is right, but... we all can be out of line when the pressure is on. IMO when we have children, it is not just about us anymore. The kids will be greatly affected too. One thing we all have to use to our own advantage is time.
I feel some of the suggestions you have been given are adversarial. How helpful is that to you to ruminate and write down the faults of the mother of your children? Maybe she has a list of her own about you.

Divorce? If that is your final answer... then get out at all cost and don't make it bitter. You will lose your self esteem and the respect of your kids. Really think about options, there is more than one right answer.

[ploughthrough2021]

What I don't understand is the "advice" to quickly rush to divorce. What about a legal separation, which would include protecting finances and seeing your own children without them being pawns. We tend to think of only our own happiness at times and sometimes are convinced the children are better off... I don't know if that is true....

Hello 'tragedy and hope', while I agree with you on considering separation before divorce, in my opinion, separation is a really just a stepping stone towards divorce.  I am also in the opinion that when one has 'suffered' for so many years and have forgiven the partner with PD may times, there are no other options but to get out to get your sanity back.

[escapingman]

To Tragedy or Hope: Are you really staying I should sacriface my own happines and sanity to allowed for her abuse to continue? We can't even sit down for lunch without her starting shouting at one of us for apparently trying to make her snap. And when she snaps it's our fault because she was made to lose it. No, I don't think so. I have tried everything for almost 20 years and nothing, and I mean nothing helps. She cannot stop herself from losing her temper. Why can't she stop? Because she doesn't want to.

[1footouttadefog]

I agree in part with the idea that divorce is not always toe best first step.  But in many cases it is.

In some situations, and they all vary, and in some states depending on the laws, the children might at times be better served with a separation.

If a sitution is not one the courts would recognize as dangerous to the kids still being married can allow the healthy parent to stay in charge of more of what goes on with the kids.

A legal separation in some cases will require a costody arrangement in court depends again on the state.  Being marrried still yet living separately can work in some situations to give more control while letting things play out with the pd. Ie it can allow them to sink to bottom and finally seek help , decide they want out without taking the kids or to self destruct with iht taking the kids and partner down with them.

I considered this.  Being divorced would have meant my kids would have been with pdh unsupervised half of the time and he would not have taken his meds if not married etc.

I elected to stay married to protect my kids.  Eventually we got past that part of things and we now have new challenges.  They are almost grown now, and my prison term is almost over in many regards.

I could have had a side relationship if I had wanted, but I was not going to turn my kids over to insanity and abuse.  Having a separate pad and getting regular intimacy would not have. Right happiness if my kids were the price.